20% of Russians are sadists

[Spathi]

I've come to the conclusion that about 20% of Russians get sadistic pleasure from inflicting suffering on Ukrainians. It can be said, that there are three peoples in Russia: an apolitical majority, a pro-war minority, and an anti-war minority. And the pro-war minority ("vatniks") impose Putin's current policies and persecute the democrats in power. Putin wouldn't have started the war if the “vatniks” didn’t persecute people like old liberal Medvedev, A.Chubays, I. Nabiullina; and his war is turning them into sadists.
I can explain why Putin has to torment Ukrainians, causing them as much suffering as possible. For the past 20 years, there has been a clash of two ideologies: the Russian imperial ideology (Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, etc.) and the Ukrainian pro-democratic Maidan. The Maidan gave Ukrainians a lot (in particular, a fight against corruption), and if Putin hadn't bombed them, they would now be happier than Russians. And in this case, the Russians would also want to inspire a revolution (Maidan) in Moscow. This is precisely why Putin is artificially making Ukrainians unhappy. The "vatniks" have their favorite meme: "The ukrs had jumped on the Maidan", meaning that as long as Ukrainians live worse than Russians, the “vatniks” believe that a revolution against a government is a bad idea.
I constantly read news about how the Russian army bombed a Ukrainian hospital, a medicine warehouse, and so on—at least unconsciously, all of this is aimed precisely at causing suffering to Ukrainians. It can be said that Putin no longer has a choice: if he will loose the power, he will lose his life.

 

[Klystron]

I've come to the conclusion that about 20% of Russians get sadistic pleasure from inflicting suffering on Ukrainians.

My sources are dated but American psychologists placed sadists -- people who enjoy or receive sexual satisfaction from other's pain and suffering -- at roughly 10% of adults. While difficult to quantify, my life experience does not contradict this estimate. A 20% sadist estimate applied to ardent Trumpists / "MAGA" appears reasonable, probably as a floor, given public hate rhetoric.

Has any fascist or totalitarian regime promoted love and equality for all?

 

[Spathi]

My sources are dated but American psychologists placed sadists -- people who enjoy or receive sexual satisfaction from other's pain and suffering -- at roughly 10% of adults. While difficult to quantify, my life experience does not contradict this estimate. A 20% sadist estimate applied to ardent Trumpists / "MAGA" appears reasonable, probably as a floor, given public hate rhetoric.

Has any fascist or totalitarian regime promoted love and equality for all?

I have read a Viktor Frankl's book about Nazi concentration camps, and I noticed that the rules in these camps were designed to inflict maximum suffering on Jews (not just to kill them). I also saw a TV program about World War II, and it mentioned the following fact. At the end of the war, the Allies liberated the territories of Germany where concentration camps were located. The Germans evacuated Jews from these concentration camps and transported them to deeper regions of Germany, which the Allies had not yet reached. And this was done at the expense of military expediency – instead of evacuating weapons, important equipment and so on, the Germans evacuated Jews. From this, it can be concluded that most Germans derived sadistic pleasure from carrying out the Holocaust, and this sadism became a need for them.
There are some Germans at this forum, maybe they can comment this.

 

[sbrothy]

Oh, @fresh_42 is going to have a field day with this!

 

[fresh_42]

I basically bemoan any statements that attribute a certain property to a large group of people, whatever it is defined as. There have been certain Nazi figures who definitely were sadists, Mengele, e.g., but I doubt that "most Germans" or nowadays "most (MAGA) Americans" or, as you say, "most Russians" are. I think this is a false statement. You cannot conclude from examples to the entire sample.

@Klystron already pointed out that it needs scientific studies for such claims, and that even the question, let alone an experimental setup, contains ambiguities. In this context, I like to mention Milgram's experiment from 1961. If it shows one thing, then that different societies are often not so difficult after all.

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The currently mentioned groups in this context are, in my opinion, not more sadistic on average than any other. Most individuals of these groups simply didn't or don't care. This is deplorable, but a sociological constant. What did change are the circumstances: sadism becomes visible in specific situations, be it war crimes in Ukraine, ICE raids in the US, or human experiments in Nazi concentration camps. This is, in my mind, not sufficient to allow quantitative statements.

What really distinguishes groups is mentality, which, by the way, already scatters a lot within all three countries we are talking about in this thread, depending on location. I recently wanted to know the origins of the various Germanic tribes of Danes, Frisians, and Swedes. You cannot imagine my surprise that even a small country like Denmark has significant local differences manifesting in its spoken languages and dialects. Hence, how in the world could we ever conclude from many local groups to all individuals in a single larger group? Such simplifications are inevitably doomed to fail.

One German mentality is to obey orders, inherited from the Prussians, and to be particularly effective in whatever they begin. This explains how anti-Semitism resulted in the Holocaust, or how communism resulted in total surveillance in the GDR. Nevertheless, most Germans weren't sadistic in the Third Reich, and neither were all Germans in the GDR internal spies.

As far as Russians are concerned, I observed two main attitudes. These are based on personal experience, and not at all suited for generalization. For one, Russians swear and curse hard and often. This can be disturbing for strangers, but does it mean they were more brutal than others, because their invective suggests it? My other observation was that many Russians had change in their pockets that they handed to beggars without hesitation whenever asked, particularly if it were older people. You wouldn't expect that from people being overly sadistic.

We should be very careful with any form of simplification or generalization.

 

[sbrothy]

I basically bemoan any statements that attribute a certain property to a large group of people, whatever it is defined as. There have been certain Nazi figures who definitely were sadists, Mengele, e.g., but I doubt that "most Germans" or nowadays "most (MAGA) Americans" or, as you say, "most Russians" are. I think this is a false statement. You cannot conclude from examples to the entire sample.

@Klystron already pointed out that it needs scientific studies for such claims, and that even the question, let alone an experimental setup, contains ambiguities. In this context, I like to mention Milgram's experiment from 1961. If it shows one thing, then that different societies are often not so difficult after all.

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The currently mentioned groups in this context are, in my opinion, not more sadistic on average than any other. Most individuals of these groups simply didn't or don't care. This is deplorable, but a sociological constant. What did change are the circumstances: sadism becomes visible in specific situations, be it war crimes in Ukraine, ICE raids in the US, or human experiments in Nazi concentration camps. This is, in my mind, not sufficient to allow quantitative statements.

What really distinguishes groups is mentality, which, by the way, already scatters a lot within all three countries we are talking about in this thread, depending on location. I recently wanted to know the origins of the various Germanic tribes of Danes, Frisians, and Swedes. You cannot imagine my surprise that even a small country like Denmark has significant local differences manifesting in its spoken languages and dialects. Hence, how in the world could we ever conclude from many local groups to all individuals in a single larger group? Such simplifications are inevitably doomed to fail.

One German mentality is to obey orders, inherited from the Prussians, and to be particularly effective in whatever they begin. This explains how anti-Semitism resulted in the Holocaust, or how communism resulted in total surveillance in the GDR. Nevertheless, most Germans weren't sadistic in the Third Reich, and neither were all Germans in the GDR internal spies.

As far as Russians are concerned, I observed two main attitudes. These are based on personal experience, and not at all suited for generalization. For one, Russians swear and curse hard and often. This can be disturbing for strangers, but does it mean they were more brutal than others, because their invective suggests it? My other observation was that many Russians had change in their pockets that they handed to beggars without hesitation whenever asked, particularly if it were older people. You wouldn't expect that from people being overly sadistic.

We should be very careful with any form of simplification or generalization.

I ageee overall about the overgeneraliztion thing.

Just wanted to reiterate the debunking (Love that word. I wish more conspiracy nuts would use it.) of Milgram’s “experiment” There’s been plenty of documentaries and papers diamantling it on so many levels.

Which, by the way, is also true of the infamous Stanford Prisom “experiment”.

 

[fresh_42]

The following actually happened: During a stay in North Ossetia, a man, according to his passport, probably Russian, but I don't recall his exact ethnicity; he could have been Ossetian, Chechen, Dagestani, or Georgian, said that not everything was bad during the German occupation in World War II. He specifically stated that order and justice prevailed. Question: Are all Russians Nazis, or at least the North Caucasian peoples to whom this man belonged? A similar question could be asked about alcoholism.

Even real-life experiences don't allow us to generalize from the individual.

 

[fresh_42]

I ageee overall about the overgeneraliztion thing.

Just wanted to reiterate the debunking (Love that word. I wish more conspiracy nuts would use it.) of Milgram’s “experiment” There’s been plenty of documentaries and papers diamantling it on so many levels.

Which, by the way, is also true of the infamous Stanford Prisom “experiment”.

Well, what certainly can be said is that the answer to the question "What would you have done?" is probably "Nothing." for the overwhelming majority if we look at history and the current USA. Trump committed crimes against humanity already during his first term (deliberately creating orphans by separating children from their parents) and now by deporting American citizens (even a 4 yo kid battling cancer).

At least @Greg Bernhardt tried to give a different answer than "Nothing." as this website demonstrates. Unfortunately, a big part of the contributions comes from Canadians and Europeans, instead of debating US-Americans. I think we Europeans are far more used to political discussions of all kinds. It is almost a tradition, even if unfortunately a vanishing one.

 

[sbrothy]

I always like saying that we Europeans don’t really know what’s really going on politicallly “over there’. At least not apart from what we’re spoon fed from our media. I suspect democrazy works pretty fine on a state level or lower, but I have nothing to show for it. I’ll also admit that Trump got some positive results but getting past the neopotism (I know deals are always made but can you imagine the Danish state minister appointing her sister or brother-in-law to negotiate with Ukraine or the Saudies?), not to speak of plutocralism and gerontocralism is rather hard.

 

[fresh_42]

Maybe this discussion was better suited for

S

Other Thread 'USA vs Europe'

Sep 24, 2025

As far as I can see, if we compare USA with Europe, the latter looks like USSR: it has more equality, but less freedom. In Europe, the laws control everything, for example, cucumbers for sale must be of a strictly defined shape. And this makes too difficult for a smart person to start its own business.

I have heard from many people, that in Europe, people drink more alcohol, than in USA. This can be explained as the result of political situation. A psychologist have told me, that craving for alcohol is a consequence of the absence of aim in life; and it seems that the lack of freedom in...

• Spathi
• Replies: 57
• Forum: Global & International Politics

I'll answer over there.

 

[sbrothy]

Maybe this discussion was better suited for

S

Other Thread 'USA vs Europe'

Sep 24, 2025

As far as I can see, if we compare USA with Europe, the latter looks like USSR: it has more equality, but less freedom. In Europe, the laws control everything, for example, cucumbers for sale must be of a strictly defined shape. And this makes too difficult for a smart person to start its own business.

I have heard from many people, that in Europe, people drink more alcohol, than in USA. This can be explained as the result of political situation. A psychologist have told me, that craving for alcohol is a consequence of the absence of aim in life; and it seems that the lack of freedom in...

• Spathi
• Replies: 57
• Forum: Global & International Politics

I'll answer over there.

Oh yeah. I forgot we weren’t there.

 

[Klystron]

I think we Europeans are far more used to political discussions of all kinds. It is almost a tradition, even if unfortunately a vanishing one.

Locale within USA also plays an outsized (I hesitate to write "huge") role with propensity to engage in political discussion. Many Calfornians regard arguing politics as a major pastime akin to discussing professional sports rankings in other locales.

I was amazed as a young adult how so many Americans ignore or even belittle political discourse. One might as well ignore your heartbeat and breathing, to paraphrase a 20th Century author. Disengaged misinformed voters become easily led. Voting in a democracy requires reliable information sources, study and hard work.

 

[fresh_42]

Locale within USA also plays an outsized (I hesitate to write "huge") role with propensity to engage in political discussion. Many Calfornians regard arguing politics as a major pastime akin to discussing professional sports rankings in other locales.

I was amazed as a young adult how so many Americans ignore or even belittle political discourse. One might as well ignore your heartbeat and breathing, to paraphrase a 20th Century author. Disengaged misinformed voters become easily led. Voting in a democracy requires reliable information sources, study and hard work.

Yes, I agree. But I think geography is also an issue. Europeans are simply used to different cultures, different languages, and different countries. You basically have every 500 km (or less) another country, language, and culture. We even have three different official languages in Germany, and no, English isn't one of them. Danish and Sorbian are the other two. The question "What do others do better than we?" isn't as far-fetched as in the USA. We don't have to look very far to see different solutions for the same problems. I consider this a benefit. The many cultures in Europe are a treasure, in my opinion. The USA is way more isolated and has a sort of island mentality.

I daily thank de Gaulle and Adenauer for beginning what is now the EU, particularly so shortly after the war. What a great idea to unite people in bureaucracy instead of dividing them by resentments and prejudices as before. Genius! People tend to forget this, see e.g., the Brexit. Hence, comparisons and reflection are second nature to us. I think the US-American complacency is a curse and extremely detrimental to improvements of any kind.

An example: In the UK, whenever I tripped over my English and said sorry, the standard answer was always "still better than my German". When I entered a sports shop in MI and couldn't find the correct English words fast enough while trying to buy a professional baseball as a souvenir, they looked at me as if I was seriously handicapped. Sure, it is a single personal experience, but it shows my point.

 

[Spathi]

or, as you say, "most Russians" are

I am NOT saying that most Russians are sadists. I am saying that 20% of them are sadists. And there is one more group in Russia, maybe again 20%, who hate Putin and his war. And the remaining majority is apolitical.
I am sure that if a referendum was performed in Russia with a suggestions to unblock youtube and stop the war, the majority of Russians would vote Yes. I have explained this in more details in my other thread:

S

Ukraine Thread 'The most easy way for Trump to stop the war in Ukraine'

Sep 29, 2025

Currently Trump has a very easy way to end the Russian-Ukrainian war and make the western democracies win. He should make a public proposal to Putin on YouTube: Ukraine will voluntarily cede some territory to Russia, for example Balakliia and Izium, if Putin agrees to hold a referendum in Russia with the following points:

1) Unblocking YouTube

2) Unblocking messengers

3) Cancellation of 280 articles of the Criminal Code

4) Signing a peace treaty with Ukraine.

In the future, a 5th point could be added to the four: the return of 2013 territories to Ukraine in exchange for the lifting of...

• Spathi
• Replies: 28
• Forum: Global & International Politics

It is indeed important to derive this information to Trump. As far as I understand, he really tries to stop the war in Ukraine, and now he plans to attack Venezuela; and Putin, as usual, starts threatening him with nukes. Trump have some very easy possibilities to overcome Putin and make the western democracies the winners - he just needs to upload some videos on youtube with appeal to Russians. The Russians will listen to what he says, and they probably will experience a cognitive dissonance.

 

[Spathi]

In Russian province cities, the majority of taxi car services use these digits in their phone numbers for calling:

Такси 666 | Такси в ДНР, Донецк, Макеевка, Мариуполь

taxi666.ru

I understand that the members of pf deny the prophecies, but what about the Freudian effects?

 

[sbrothy]

I am NOT saying that most Russians are sadists. I am saying that 20% of them are sadists. And there is one more group in Russia, maybe again 20%, who hate Putin and his war. And the remaining majority is apolitical.
I am sure that if a referendum was performed in Russia with a suggestions to unblock youtube and stop the war, the majority of Russians would vote Yes. I have explained this in more details in my other thread:

S

Ukraine Thread 'The most easy way for Trump to stop the war in Ukraine'

Sep 29, 2025

Currently Trump has a very easy way to end the Russian-Ukrainian war and make the western democracies win. He should make a public proposal to Putin on YouTube: Ukraine will voluntarily cede some territory to Russia, for example Balakliia and Izium, if Putin agrees to hold a referendum in Russia with the following points:

1) Unblocking YouTube

2) Unblocking messengers

3) Cancellation of 280 articles of the Criminal Code

4) Signing a peace treaty with Ukraine.

In the future, a 5th point could be added to the four: the return of 2013 territories to Ukraine in exchange for the lifting of...

• Spathi
• Replies: 28
• Forum: Global & International Politics

It is indeed important to derive this information to Trump. As far as I understand, he really tries to stop the war in Ukraine, and now he plans to attack Venezuela; and Putin, as usual, starts threatening him with nukes. Trump have some very easy possibilities to overcome Putin and make the western democracies the winners - he just needs to upload some videos on youtube with appeal to Russians. The Russians will listen to what he says, and they probably will experience a cognitive dissonance.

Haha, unblocking youtube. Yes, surely that's existentially important. Commercials and important QAnon news and whatnot.