Bill Maher's dinner with Trump

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Bill Maher had his friend Kid Rock arrange a dinner with Trump at the White House the other week. He did a segment on his show on Friday reporting what happened. Maher's reason for wanting to meet with Trump is his idea that both sides need to talk to each other. He's been critical of people who don't want him to have people like Megyn Kelly, KellyAnne Conway, Kid Rock who support Trump on his show. Predictably, some on the left criticized Maher for normalizing Trump.

Maher often points out he's friends with these people. He likes them personally. From there, he jumps to "therefore we should keep talking about politics." One thing I've found frustrating when he had these guests on his show is that he seemed unprepared or unwilling to push back against their lies, and in other cases, like COVID, he agrees with their revisionist history. It's one thing to have a debate to point out the weaknesses in each side's positions; it's another to simply provide another platform on which they can spew their lies.

Personally, I see talking politics with MAGA diehards is like trying to discuss science with a creationist, an anti-vaxxer, flat earther, or other conspiracy theorist. It's pointless because they're not intellectually honest about their position. Bring up a fact that contradicts their world view, and they will simply ignore it. No amount of evidence is going to change their minds.

I'm curious to see what others think the way forward is.

 

[jack action]

Watch them crash and burn, picking up the pieces afterward. Is there any other way?

If people want to follow them in their ways, if everything makes sense to them, who are you to stop them? Isn't that what democracy is all about?

Isn't the problem that the people from "your side" have NOT spread "your truth" efficiently? That is what YOU can change. Don't be one of those "smart" people who think anyone not agreeing with them is just "too stupid" to understand their wisdom.

Predictably, some on the left criticized Maher for normalizing Trump.

But he is normal. He won an election, based on a majority vote, fair and square. Being part of the majority is pretty much the definition of "normal" in that sense.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Claims are that he's pimping to keep his HBO show

Keith Olbermann Slams Bill Maher for ‘Prostituting Himself’ Over Trump Dinner Praise: ‘This Is So He Can Keep His HBO Show’

Keith Olbermann salmmed comedian Bill Maher for Maher’s praise for President Donald Trump following a dinner set up by Kid Rock.

variety.com

 

[Klystron]

As a longtime HBO subscriber I never found Bill Maher sincere. His humor seems forced, swarmy instead of funny. By contrast, Seth Meyers, Jon Stewart, John Oliver, even Stephen Colbert when he was playing a faux-Republican stalwart on Comedy Central's Colbert Report, radiate essential warmth and sincerity lacking in Maher's presentation.

So, not surprised he gravitates toward Trump.

 

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I don't know if I'd call him insincere. He does come off as smug and condescending, however. Some of his jokes have "the cool kids laughing at the nerds" vibe.

 

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If people want to follow them in their ways, if everything makes sense to them, who are you to stop them? Isn't that what democracy is all about?

The Founders didn't envision a government where the mob rules. The Constitution was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

But he is normal. He won an election, based on a majority vote, fair and square. Being part of the majority is pretty much the definition of "normal" in that sense.

I don't consider masked goons abducting people off the streets, the federal government renditioning people to a concentration camp in a foreign country, or the executive branch deciding it is judge, jury, and executioner normal.

The criticism directed at Maher is that while he recognizes the gross violations of the law, this whole exercise of having dinner with Trump just to say "oh, he's a nice, reasonable guy in person" tends to play down what a horrible president Trump is, regardless of Maher's intentions.

What was the point of the dinner? For Trump, it's obvious. He used Maher to make himself look like a nice guy. What did Maher get out of it? He revealed Trump doesn't act like an asshole 100% of the time? So what, he's an asshole when it matters.

 

[jack action]

a government where the mob rules

Someone elected by a majority vote is not a situation where the mob rules. January 6th was.

The Constitution was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

No, it wasn't:

America’s first constitution, the Articles of Confederation, gave the Confederation Congress the power to make rules and request funds from the states, but it had no enforcement powers, couldn’t regulate commerce, or print money. The states’ disputes over territory, war pensions, taxation, and trade threatened to tear the young country apart. [...]

[...]

One of the fiercest arguments was over congressional representation—should it be based on population or divided equally among the states? The framers compromised by giving each state one representative for every 30,000 people in the House of Representatives and two representatives in the Senate. They agreed to count enslaved Africans as three-fifths of a person. Slavery itself was a thorny question that threatened to derail the Union. It was temporarily resolved when the delegates agreed that the slave trade could continue until 1808.

Like anything else, it is always about controlling money and power.

I don't consider masked goons abducting people off the streets, the federal government renditioning people to a concentration camp in a foreign country, or the executive branch deciding it is judge, jury, and executioner normal.

I don't consider putting people in prison normal, yet I'm surrounded by a majority of people who think it's the right thing to do, therefore, it is normal; they are normal, and I'm not.

Thank God I don't live in a country where people think executing someone is normal.

what a horrible president Trump is

He is not a horrible person, he does horrible things. The distinction is subtle but important when you want to negotiate with someone.

If you are not willing to talk, the only other option is violence, and it never ends well.

What did Maher get out of it?

He humanizes people on both sides and tries to put light on their similarities rather than their differences. It is called diplomacy.

It's pointless because they're not intellectually honest about their position. Bring up a fact that contradicts their world view, and they will simply ignore it. No amount of evidence is going to change their minds.

What's wrong is trying to prove that they're wrong rather than trying to understand their fear, pain, and suffering. People will shut you down if you don't listen to them. It is a defense mechanism that we all have and use.

Nobody thinks or even cares about the shape of the Earth or how humans came to roam the Earth. It doesn't matter to any of us in our daily lives. But stating the opposite of what our opponents say, destabilizes them and gives us an advantage over them, living in their head, rent-free.

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[Greg Bernhardt]

He is not a horrible person, he does horrible things. The distinction is subtle but important when you want to negotiate with someone.

A horrible person is someone who does horrible things

 

[jack action]

A horrible person is someone who does horrible things

Don't ever become a diplomat.

2. (figuratively) Someone who uses skill and tact in dealing with other people.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Don't ever become a diplomat.

There is a time for diplomacy and a time for calling a spade a spade. Trump is a destructive sociopath. Treat him differently and watch him walk into a 3rd term. Treating him diplomatically is how he got so far in life.

 

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Someone elected by a majority vote is not a situation where the mob rules. January 6th was.

Your argument was that the majority elected Trump to office, so whatever he did, legal or not, was fine. No one has the right to stop him from violating the law.

No, it wasn't:

Like anything else, it is always about controlling money and power.

Forming any government is about controlling money and power.

The Article of Confederation led to a weak federal government by design because the Founders feared concentrating power in a central government would lead to the same tyranny they just overthrew. It turned out not to be workable, which led to the Constitution and a stronger federal government. The Founders didn't just abandon their principles, however. The philosophy behind the Constitution was still to limit the power of the government to avoid it riding roughshod over the individual and states. That's the whole reason the Bill of Rights exists—because some states wanted written guarantees for at least some rights.

I don't consider putting people in prison normal, yet I'm surrounded by a majority of people who think it's the right thing to do, therefore, it is normal; they are normal, and I'm not.

Thank God I don't live in a country where people think executing someone is normal.

You can play your stupid little games with trying to redefine words, but no one else is interested.

He is not a horrible person, he does horrible things. The distinction is subtle but important when you want to negotiate with someone.

If you are not willing to talk, the only other option is violence, and it never ends well.

He humanizes people on both sides and tries to put light on their similarities rather than their differences. It is called diplomacy.

Diplomacy only works when both sides act in good faith, and both sides are willing to listen.

Do you really think Trump honestly wanted Maher's input, that what Maher said is going to inform his future decisions? Or did Trump see an opportunity to use Maher to make himself look reasonable. It's not like Maher told Trump anything that wasn't already readily apparent. When told he was scaring people, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump thought, "Good. That's the point."

What's wrong is trying to prove that they're wrong rather than trying to understand their fear, pain, and suffering. People will shut you down if you don't listen to them. It is a defense mechanism that we all have and use.

You mean like the fear, pain, and suffering asylum seekers and other migrants have suffered? You don't think people have tried to explain this for years to Trump and the other racists in his administration and party who apparently couldn't care less? Instead of trying to fix a broken immigration system, their response is to make up lies about supposed gang members and ship them off illegally to a concentration camp, to defy court orders and continue to act unlawfully, etc.

 

[jack action]

You mean like the fear, pain, and suffering asylum seekers and other migrants have suffered? You don't think people have tried to explain this for years [...]

I'm asking you to listen, and you are telling me how you and others have "tried to explain". Explaining is not listening. You can't even discuss with me - who is on your side - without exploding in rage.

Trump was elected. By a lot of people. A lot. For the majority, they still follow him. Trump and his gang are just exploiting them.

Who are those people voting for Trump? Follow the link in this post to have a glimpse at them. (Disable Javascript to read the article.) They're not all the evil-minded people you make them out to be. There is stuff they don't like about Trump, and you could find common points with them, I'm sure. (One even mentions climate change!). They are ordinary people living with fear, pain, and suffering to the point of [KEYWORD]desperation[/KEYWORD]; hence the election of Trump, who just represents change for them. Those are the people you want to listen to. Why are they so desperate for change? What is wrong with their lives now? Don't assume anything and don't discuss solutions. Just listen.

I hear your anger. But acting on it makes you no better than the people who voted for Trump and it goes nowhere. You need to find common ground before analyzing solutions (yours or theirs).

I'm sure we can agree with Steven from the focus group:

He did campaign on a foundation of trying to bring the country together. And he hasn’t tried to do that at all. So if there’s one thing I would want him to do: Have some grace and be a bit of a diplomat and show people that you care about them.

He’s too much the persona that he built when he was on “The Apprentice.” He wants people to be scared of him. He’s a master manipulator. And he’s an extreme narcissist.

 

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I'm asking you to listen, and you are telling me how you and others have "tried to explain". Explaining is not listening. You can't even discuss with me - who is on your side - without exploding in rage.

I was pointing out that listening has to happen on both sides. You seem happy to scold one side for not listening, but you seem to be giving Trump a pass.

Trump was elected. By a lot of people. A lot. For the majority, they still follow him. Trump and his gang are just exploiting them.

Who are those people voting for Trump? Follow the link in this post to have a glimpse at them. (Disable Javascript to read the article.) They're not all the evil-minded people you make them out to be.

This thread is about Trump, not his supporters. I don't think I ever said his supporters are all evil-minded. I said Trump is.