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Another example of a progressive judge siding with criminals. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattv...rump-from-deporting-venezuelan-gangs-n2653886
Judge blocked Trump from deporting violent Venezuelan gangs
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- Thread starter morrobay
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SUMMARY
The forum discussion centers on a federal judge's ruling that blocked the Trump administration from deporting members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, citing legal concerns regarding the invocation of a 1798 law. Judge James Boasberg raised questions about the legality of using this law, which has rarely been applied in U.S. history, to classify the gang as a foreign government. The debate highlights tensions between immigration enforcement and civil rights, with participants expressing concerns over due process and the implications of bypassing legal procedures in deportation cases.
PREREQUISITES- Understanding of U.S. immigration law and deportation processes
- Familiarity with the historical context of the 1798 law and its applications
- Knowledge of civil rights protections for non-citizens in the U.S.
- Awareness of the legal principles surrounding habeas corpus
- Research the implications of the 1798 law in contemporary legal contexts
- Examine case studies on the deportation of non-citizens and civil rights issues
- Investigate the legal framework surrounding habeas corpus in immigration cases
- Analyze the role of federal judges in immigration enforcement and executive power
Legal professionals, immigration advocates, policymakers, and anyone interested in the intersection of immigration law and civil rights in the United States.
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Greg Bernhardt
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What's the problem? Please read from non-partisan sources.
Seems reasonable to me. Why the rush for fascism?
Seems reasonable to me. Why the rush for fascism?
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Fascism isn't all bad
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Greg Bernhardt
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Read the community values and principles in the sidebar. Please align with those.
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Well the Trump administration has deported 200 of these (non citizen) Venezuelan violent gang members. Overriding some SAP for a judge. A judge who places the so called civil rights of these non citizen - above the safety of the US population. Amazing that this action by the Trump administration, committed to law and order, was ever questioned in the first place. Round them Up
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It's the law.
Regardless of whether something seems like a good idea, if it involves breaking or bending the law then it means considering and facing the consequences. In this case, it appears that a "short cut" was taken that would normally be considered illegal, and it was supposedly justified by applying an ancient law that was clearly not intended to be used in that way.
If this was handled in the legal way, it might take longer and require more effort, and it is likely that the end result would have been the same, at least for the majority of the people involved, but the legal process would ensure that the result was authoritative and clearly justified in all cases.
I've not seen any evidence that the "safety" of the nation would have been affected by whether this deportation was handled legally or illegally.
Regardless of whether something seems like a good idea, if it involves breaking or bending the law then it means considering and facing the consequences. In this case, it appears that a "short cut" was taken that would normally be considered illegal, and it was supposedly justified by applying an ancient law that was clearly not intended to be used in that way.
If this was handled in the legal way, it might take longer and require more effort, and it is likely that the end result would have been the same, at least for the majority of the people involved, but the legal process would ensure that the result was authoritative and clearly justified in all cases.
I've not seen any evidence that the "safety" of the nation would have been affected by whether this deportation was handled legally or illegally.
Can you expand on this, and be more specific? Its clear that you don't think the people being deported have civil rights that should allow a judge to review the manner in which their deportation was ordered and effected, but its not clear if you mean they have zero rights to due process, or some rights just not other rights to due process. Its also not clear whether you mean any person in the country illegally or only these ~200 people should not have some or all rights to due process.
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Greg Bernhardt
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They were not given any trial and essentially kidnapped and shoved into a plane. Then a disgusting Hollywood propaganda video is shot with them entering the place with the military around you. How can you stand for that? That is fascism and yes, all fascism is bad.
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This gathering of Venezuelan violent gang members may be just a few steps away from the program that former Philippine President Duerte used against drug dealers and users and he didn't just take names and kick a...
He also had a vigilante group to help.
He also had a vigilante group to help.
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The Independent is reporting another illegal deportation which certainly at first glance does not appear to have any legal basis:
Trump officials ordered to court to explain deportation of Ivy League doctor Rasha Alawieh to Lebanon
Trump officials ordered to court to explain deportation of Ivy League doctor Rasha Alawieh to Lebanon
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Duterte, who was arrested and will face charges in the ICC for crimes against humanity.
Exactly. Even if it's for a likely just case, to start turning laws inside out is a really, really bad idea: good only for turning them into flexible toilet paper of a sort.
Seen it up close: and by now even the plain meaning of simple words is turned upside down, inside out.
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It's becoming ridiculous by the day.
economictimes.indiatimes.com
Doctor at Brown University deported to Lebanon despite US judge's order
Eggs are now the new hottest smuggled item into the US, even more than drugs
Eggs are now the new hottest smuggled item into the US, even more than drugs
Smuggling of eggs into the U.S. is rising as grocery prices surge and avian flu outbreaks continue. Eggs are being seized at borders, and fines are being levied for unauthorized poultry products. Egg prices in the U.S. have reached record highs, spurring smuggling attempts from Mexico and...
Is there any evidence that the deportees were actually gang members, or was it just another lie from the Trump administration to try justify its illegal actions?
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I don't know, but I'd say that's missing the point. The bit about "gang members" has nothing to do with the relevant law, and is clearly intended to mislead. The point is that deportation, for whatever reason, is supposed to follow a legal process which was deliberately bypassed in this case.
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As in my example where "Venezuela" was "Lebanon" and the "gang" was a "doctor". Same thing without that connotation of bad guys.
Once laws are bent, a regime is no longer legitimated.
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Exactly (as I already mentioned in post #10 of this thread).
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Missed that, sorry.
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No problem - your version included more useful details.
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I'm afraid, America, but you already have a fascism problem:
Trump is arguing that the gang at large (Tren de Agua) is engaging in wartime activities against the US. See the Al Jazeera summary at the end of my post for reference. If this legal argument is found valid by US courts, then the deportations are legal according to US law, perhaps (I am not sure on this point and its probably also something the courts would need to determine) even if the individuals deported are not actual members of Tren de Aqua. I will claim without a reference that the Japanese Americans interred during WWII were not members of any specific organization, they were just decedents of a country deemed (by all) at war with the US. These (heinous) detentions were legal per US law and that law has not changed.
This is already being litigated - its the gist of the legal question the judge ordered the stay of deportation to assess (can Trump make such a claim and apply that law). I think whether or not these people are members of Tren de Aqua is not nearly the most important thing in play here. If Trump is able to get judicial blessing for deporting people he associates with some group that he considers conducting warfare against the US, then this law enables the Federal government to fully suspend Habeus Corpus even with respect to US citizens. There is a lot at stake in this particular case. Suspending Habeus Corpus means making arrests without needing to show due cause. (Google search will confirm).
I am not all ok with the Trump administation ignoring due process in this case and really worried about the implications it has to our democracy. That said, I'd be very surprised if there is not reason to believe many or all of the deportees are associated with Tren de Aqua. It would be very ill-considered of the Trump administration to make that a reason ('they obviously aren't even gang members for goodness sake') this blatant play for power gets hung up in the courts, and in this term, as far as power-grab tactics are going, imo they have their ducks in an unfoturnately straight row. Perhaps they are hoping the opposition will focus on whether the deportees are gang members or not since this is much easier to digest and discuss than the more significant danger behind the whole pending legal decision.
Trump deports 238 ‘gang members’ to El Salvador: What’s the controversy?
The US president invokes a 1798 law to deport alleged members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua to El Salvador.
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@Grinkle My point also.
This case is noy about fascism per say, but rather does the legal branch of government stand on equal footing to the executive. The legislative branch seems to have given up some of their responsibility to the DOGE and Trump crew, all in the name of 'stupidity' and postering from both sides. This can have future implications based on precedence. Very short sited.
Neat question. Why not release the detainees to ICE, and since they, the detainees, reportedly are absent documentation of immigration status, ICE should be able to export them without an immigration hearing with ease, as they have been doing for many years since 2003.
This case is noy about fascism per say, but rather does the legal branch of government stand on equal footing to the executive. The legislative branch seems to have given up some of their responsibility to the DOGE and Trump crew, all in the name of 'stupidity' and postering from both sides. This can have future implications based on precedence. Very short sited.
Neat question. Why not release the detainees to ICE, and since they, the detainees, reportedly are absent documentation of immigration status, ICE should be able to export them without an immigration hearing with ease, as they have been doing for many years since 2003.
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The fact that the regime willingly ignores the judiciary and justifies it does indeed allow this association because this method could be observed in all fascistic regimes so far. It is nothing less than abolishing one of the three fundamental powers. The executive is already affected, i.e. laid off. The judiciary is apparently next. I'm waiting for the legislative power. However, given the current state of GOP it is already out of order. If these three offenses against the Constitution don't justify my association, then I don't know what it does. I fear, being pc won't help.
Why not indeed.
It makes sense if one thinks the goal of this entire exercise is to put before the courts a case to decide if the Executive branch can unilaterally invoke the Alien Enemies Act.
Quietly following due process would probably have resulted in deportation, but not the desired court case.
Its my own view that the US congress has become increasingly ineffective since the Republican Tea Party movement circa 2009. This congress does seem to be a few notches worse/lamer than the two Biden dealt with, even considering the Speaker debacle instigated by Gaetz, but imo not much beyond the subjective trend line.
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The rule of law is now dead in the US.
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Let's summarize:
Judiciary: simply ignored
Executive: laid off and defunded
Legislative power: = GOP, disabled itself
How would you call such a system? Definitely not democratic.
And still 1517 days left.
Days left in Trump's presidency
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If the thread was on the ways and means to fascism then that is indeed insightful.
But it is not about fascism.
It is about the legalities of the deportation, which has nothing to do with fascism.
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And still 1517 days left.
Like a kidney stone, that too shall pass.
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A thread on who or what is on the fastrack production of the most unheaval of the status quo, either the quick and endless executive orders, some of them justified, some not, the lack of civility, crude diplomacy, etc, etc.
I opened a thread on the press secretary performance, but no one has gone there except Greg. Facism can be combatted there as she sums up some of the silly stuff in a silly way.
Letting DOGE run amok in my opinion is a true an utter failure, a dereliction of duty from many quarters. The only meaningful pushback seems to have come from within by Rubio defending his dept.
The oath to the constitution was a process of being sworn in. Did any of the DOGE people take this oath, since they are acting as an arm of the government? but in secretive fashion. Are all of these individuals to be trusted with access to SS, for example, and the temptation of funds.
The road to facsism that this story does bring out is in the first new item, opening paragraph.
1.First, the judge who issued this ruling is insane. <-- attempt to crucify you opponents. As if Boasberg doesn't know immigration law.
2.A Republican congressman even declared that impeachment articles will be filed against Judge James Boasberg <-- intimidate your opponent. The congressman in question is blatantly ignorant that this alone diminishes the amount of 'power' his position holds, his own self worth, and thus questions his own dignity and sanity, showing his/her inability to think clearly rather than as a puppet .
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