Kilmar Abrego García - why is the government relentless going after the person?

[MindlessPieces]

I know some USA departments are claiming Kilmar Abrego García is a member of MS-13.
But all judges have so far said that there isn't any compelling evidence that Garcia has ever been a member of any gang.
Also, just being a gang member, isn't a crime in the USA.

So why is the USA government so hell bent on going after Garcia?
Why are the MAGA's so excited about getting this guy out of the country?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

So why is the USA government so hell bent on going after Garcia?

He is a symbol for all the things MAGA want us to hate.

 

[MindlessPieces]

He is a symbol for all the things MAGA want us to hate.

He's a person, that is legally in the country. What about him is to be hated?

 

[Borg]

He's a person, that is legally in the country. What about him is to be hated?

At this point, he represents something that they failed to achieve. Can't have that.

 

[Grinkle]

What about him is to be hated?

If you are MAGA, he is the symbol of what you hate about immigrants.

edit: to expand on what he symbolizes to MAGA - he represents a basically bad-intentioned person who immigrated to the US illegally and who liberals are trying to protect all while he does bad things to good people in this country. Some bad things are actively committing crimes, some bad things just by using resources while he lives here.

If you are liberal, he is the symbol of what you hate about MAGA attitudes and policies towards immigrants.

The below link summarizes the due process issues and gov't actions taken since as well as the criminal charges against him (domestic abuse, resolved; transporting illegal immigrants, charges pending).

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The interest in him has little to do, afaik, with his specific background or the charges pending against him (which one may argue are motivated as being a bit of red meat rather than real concern for public safety) - by being mistakenly deported, he got caught up in something that quickly became much bigger than him personally.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

He's a person, that is legally in the country. What about him is to be hated?

He's not white

 

[MindlessPieces]

If you are MAGA, he is the symbol of what you hate about immigrants.

edit: to expand on what he symbolizes to MAGA - he represents a basically bad-intentioned person who immigrated to the US illegally and who liberals are trying to protect all while he does bad things to good people in this country. Some bad things are actively committing crimes, some bad things just by using resources while he lives here.

If you are liberal, he is the symbol of what you hate about MAGA attitudes and policies towards immigrants.

I don't think Liberals see Garcia as a symbol of anything.

I think liberals as well as many non MAGAs are worried about abuse of power, overreach and corruption of the current USA government, especially Trump, Bondi and ICE.

They are "deporting" people because they are non white and have tattoes, or have an accent, or just don't look white. They are not going through due process, and they are not deporting people to any country that those people have ever been in or have ties with.

It is beyond the pale what the government is doing to Garcia, beyond the pale the trumped up charges they are doing to relentlessly go after Comey and James. All the while pardoning white people, rich elite connected people, people that have committed violence against politicians and police for Trump. Many of the department heads DOJ, FBI etc are just puppets, they have allowed the President to take over otherwise independent departments, they are abdicating their own power, their own responsibilities and are just aiming to please Trump. This is the worst, most corrupt, most third world USA I have ever seen in my lifetime.

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The interest in him has little to do, afaik, with his specific background or the charges pending against him (which one may argue are motivated as being a bit of red meat rather than real concern for public safety) - by being mistakenly deported, he got caught up in something that quickly became much bigger than him personally.

If I were a USA citizen, Democrat supporter and if Biden had been doing this I would have been disgusted, and wouldn't have voted Biden or Harris
I can't fathom how 70 million Trump supporters are all ok with this.

 

[Grinkle]

I don't think Liberals see Garcia as a symbol of anything.

At least by my definition of symbol, you are seeing him as a symbol of ...

abuse of power, overreach and corruption of the current USA government, especially Trump, Bondi and ICE.

You didn't say much at all in your post about him personally, you talked about the theme's around his situation and how they are an example of a larger disturbing picture. This is what I mean by symbol, and these are the kinds of conversations I have with liberals when talking about him. In many discussions folks don't know his name - he is "that guy who was deported by mistake".

I almost never talk to anyone who knows anything specific about him or his personal situation. He is symbolic of a larger social situation, in the minds of the people I at least discuss him with, and imo of you as well. If I'm wrong, and you disagree that you see him as a symbol after reading what I meant by that, of course I will accept that - you get to decide how you see him, of course.

 

[Grinkle]

It is beyond the pale what the government is doing to Garcia, beyond the pale the trumped up charges they are doing to relentlessly go after Comey and James. All the while pardoning white people, rich elite connected people, people that have committed violence against politicians and police for Trump. Many of the department heads DOJ, FBI etc are just puppets, they have allowed the President to take over otherwise independent departments, they are abdicating their own power, their own responsibilities and are just aiming to please Trump. This is the worst, most corrupt, most third world USA I have ever seen in my lifetime.

Yes, I agree.

 

[MindlessPieces]

At least by my definition of symbol, you are seeing him as a symbol of ...



You didn't say much at all in your post about him personally, you talked about the theme's around his situation and how they are an example of a larger disturbing picture. This is what I mean by symbol, and these are the kinds of conversations I have with liberals when talking about him.

I wouldn't say he is a symbol, he isn't that important.

His case amounst the other cases e.g. Comey, James are just symptoms or examples of a widespread, ongoing abuse of government power.

 

[Grinkle]

are just symptoms or examples

They are certainly that.

 

[MindlessPieces]

They are certainly that.

I mean, no one would say, "I want to be just like Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

For example, Rosa Parks, became a symbol of liberation or defiance against the injustness of racists laws and policies. She took a stand, remaining in her seat despite people telling her she needs to move to make room for white people.

Kilmar did nothing, he wasn't defiant, he doesn't represent hope, he's just a random victim. Lot's of people in the Jim Crow era were victims of racism enforced by the USA laws. But Rosa wasn't only a victim, she stood up and defied. Kilmar did no such thing, he isn't a hero, he isn't leading by example., he's just a pawn rather than an important piece. It is only Trump and his puppets that are focussing on him in specific. They have millions of immigrants to go after, but seem for a bizzare reason (probably optics) to be dead set on getting Kilmar.

People should be aware of what this administration is doing to him, they should be disgusted by it. Not just liberals, but anyone that wants a democratic country and wants justice to be blind and objective.

 

[Grinkle]

I mean, no one would say, "I want to be just like Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

For example, Rosa Parks, became a symbol of liberation or defiance against the injustness of racists laws and policies. She took a stand, remaining in her seat despite people telling her she needs to move to make room for white people.

If I understand what you mean, you are applying a positive connotation to being a symbol. I agree he's not seen as inspirational. Best case inspiration-wise, he's possibly someone who's story might be spurring others to action out of disgust for a dis-regard of due process, but I agree, he's no Rosa Parks, who inspired people by her own personal response to what the world threw at her.

I meant something much weaker when I said he's a symbol - I (only) meant that people leverage the fact that most everyone has heard the higlights of his story to be able to use him as a short-hand to talk about the dangers of current policy / leadership from our administration. And MAGA folks can similarly use him as a commonly understood boogeyman.

 

[MindlessPieces]

If I understand what you mean, you are applying a positive connotation to being a symbol. I agree he's not seen as inspirational. Best case inspiration-wise, he's possibly someone who's story might be spurring others to action out of disgust for a dis-regard of due process, but I agree, he's no Rosa Parks, who inspired people by her own personal response to what the world threw at her.

I meant something much weaker when I said he's a symbol - I (only) meant that people leverage the fact that most everyone has heard the higlights of his story to be able to use him as a short-hand to talk about the dangers of current policy / leadership from our administration. And MAGA folks can similarly use him as a commonly understood boogeyman.

Yeah, it's not like he has done anything defiant, or brave or whatnot.

Some people think D Trump is brave or defiant because he held up his fist after being shot at in an assassination attempt.

Garcia didn't even do that. He has just been shipped around and locked up while his lawyer and some judges are trying to get Due Process to happen. Garcia himself has done nothing to warrant being a symbol or inspiration or anything. He's merely a victim, albeit one with high visibility in the press.

But no one is saying "I want to be brave like Garcia" "I want to stand up to the system like Garcia did"?

In Hunger games, Katness became a symbol, someone worshipped, someone the common people put their hopes on, she gave people courage and hope to beat the system to beat the suppression they were enduring.

Garcia isn't doing that for anyone. He's not a symbol, he's a victim, amongst many victims.

 

[Grinkle]

@MindlessPieces For me, the meaningful part of his story is around being deprived of due process, and then made into an example (I'm fine using that word instead of symbol, it also means what I meant) of deportation success for the administration while they deliberately fought / fight the judicial branch to prevent according him due process all because they don't want to say and put an action plan around "you are correct, we need to not be reckless and provide due process".

If he were detained under the Biden administration, for all I know, he might have been deported, or maybe not, I don't have an opinion on that.

 

[MindlessPieces]

@MindlessPieces For me, the meaningful part of his story is around being deprived of due process, and then made into an example (I'm fine using that word instead of symbol, it also means what I meant) of deportation success for the administration while they deliberately fought / fight the judicial branch to prevent according him due process all because they don't want to say and put an action plan around "you are correct, we need to not be reckless and provide due process".

If he were detained under the Biden administration, for all I know, he might have been deported, or maybe not, I don't have an opinion on that.

He's being made an example of by the Trump admin, not by the leftist liberals.
The left are just reacting to what is happening to him.

I feel it is unfair to try and say the left are pinning him up as a symbol of anything. If the Trump admin stop going after him, he won't be in the news anymore (BTW, the news aren't The LEFT). He's not going to do the news rounds like Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle was made out to be a "hero" on Fox News for killing three unarmed BLM protesters. No one is making out Garcia to be any kind of hero.

Trump admin are trying very hard to make an example of him. For Trump, optics, strength and winning is everything. He wants to show that he is a strong man president and not even the courts can stop him. He also wants immigrants to be fearful.
The News (not the left) are just covering the story.
The lawyers (not the left) are fighting to protect Garcia's rights and freedom.
The judges (not the left) are trying to make sure the law and constitution are followed.

 

[Grinkle]

@MindlessPieces Here is an example of the Left using him as a symbol.

Kilmar Is a Symbol Now

And the White House is desperately trying to fight it.

www.thebulwark.com

More broadly than just a counter-example to your assertion -

The left are just reacting to what is happening to him.

Of course, how else could any of this be unfolding? There is nothing else to react or discuss except for what is happening to him. I kind of see your point here, I agree that without his being 'gone-after' by the administration there is little to see, but isn't that just stating what started the whole thing? I think you are saying more than I am seeing here - can you expand?

BTW, the news aren't The LEFT

Take a look at the below link. In the US, it really depends on which news source you are referring to. Some news sources are indeed the Left, the Bulwark in my counter-example above is one such.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/announcing-allsides-media-bias-chart-version-11

There are definitely centrist news sources in the US, and I do agree they are simply doing fact based reporting and nothing more.

 

[MindlessPieces]

@MindlessPieces Here is an example of the Left using him as a symbol.

Kilmar Is a Symbol Now

And the White House is desperately trying to fight it.

www.thebulwark.com

More broadly than just a counter-example to your assertion -



Of course, how else could any of this be unfolding? There is nothing else to react or discuss except for what is happening to him. I kind of see your point here, I agree that without his being 'gone-after' by the administration there is little to see, but isn't that just stating what started the whole thing? I think you are saying more than I am seeing here - can you expand?



Take a look at the below link. In the US, it really depends on which news source you are referring to. Some news sources are indeed the Left, the Bulwark in my counter-example above is one such.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/announcing-allsides-media-bias-chart-version-11

There are definitely centrist news sources in the US, and I do agree they are simply doing fact based reporting and nothing more.

There are a couple of important things for me to point out.

When someone says "the Left are..." What specifically do they mean by that?
Or more to the point, who is it that they are claiming to be a representative of the The Left?

For example, Piers Morgan keeps going on in front of his leftist guests on his show that The Left is calling Trump to be like Hitler. None of Piers' leftists guests have ever called Trump Hitler.
I have seen a report saying that J D Vance (Trump's VP) once called Trump Hitler.
I have not seen anything where any Democrat House member, senator or party member has called Trump Hilter. I haven't heard of any prominant Leftist political commentator saying Trump is like Hitler. So where is Piers getting this from? Some random comments by anonymous idiots on the internet?

Another claim of Piers' is that The Left were celebrating Charlie Kirk's murder. Cenk was also claiming this. Again I haven heard of any Democrat party member saying anything in support of, or justifying Charlie's murder. All leftist youtubers I have seen were condemning it. Parker was in tears on his stream, shocked and horrified. So again, when people say "The left are..." they seem to be picking up of random anonymous losers on the internet, making inflammatory and loser comments, and then ascribing that as if it is the position of the Left.

In comparison, when people say the "Right are...." you can typically get quotes from the President, the VP, the Finance minister, the DOJ director, Steven Miller, Fox News hosts, Steve Bannon, many other Republican members saying this shit. You don't have to go to random anonymous idiots.

So the question is, Who on the Left is holding up Garcia as a Symbol? If someone has tried, it doesn't seem to have picked up any steam.
Your article shows:
- The Trump white house created and distributed a propoganda poster of Garcia, calling him an MS-13 member.
- A neigbor and presumably friend of Garcia's lawyer got some artists to create posters call to free Garcia.


I guess it depends on your definition of the word "Symbol". If someone has created a poster of you, does that mean you are a symbol? If that poster says Free <you> then you are a symbol of what? "Freedom for yourself?"

So if anyone has been on the news, or had any person or group call for you to be freed, does that make you a symbol? Was Hurricane Carter a symbol, when people were calling for him to be freed from prison? When Bob Dylan made a song about The Hurricane, did that make Carter a symbol for his own freedom?

Granted Nelson Mendela became a symbol against oppression of blacks in South Africa. But Nelson was an activist, a leader who had done a great many things for the cause.
Garcia has done nothing for any cause, other than being locked up, shipped around and having his own lawyers fight for his own freedom.

 

[Grinkle]

Garcia has done nothing for any cause, other than being locked up, shipped around and having his own lawyers fight for his own freedom.

I am not glorifying him - based on what I know I agree with the above part of your post.

I guess it depends on your definition of the word "Symbol".

Yes; my own meaning in the context of this thread is in post 13.

 

[placebo]

So why is the USA government so hell bent on going after Garcia?

I heard this question was asked the other day, probably on one of the Bulwark podcasts. The hosts conjectured that if the government manages to get Garcia, it will send the message to everyone that no one is safe. It's to foment fear.

 

[MindlessPieces]

I heard this question was asked the other day, probably on one of the Bulwark podcasts. The hosts conjectured that if the government manages to get Garcia, it will send the message to everyone that no one is safe. It's to foment fear.

North Korea style.

USA is slowing shutting itself down.
Closing borders, even tourists are dropping off. People not going overseas worried they will have trouble coming back. Massive barriers put up on international trade, withdrawing from international organisations e.g. WHO, Paris Accord. Women's rights being revoked, gays and trans being targeted, media, universities and lawyers being extorted. Oligarchs pardoned from crimes, trumped up charges on political opponents. People being locked up and shipped out without due process, Admin defying court orders, military on the streets...

This is much more like NK, Mao styled China, Putin's Russia than it is like a 1st world democratic country. Trump's USA this is.