The conflict in Iran is a religious war,...

[Grinkle]

Trump has used USA's military to attack Iran because somehow it makes Trump personally richer, more famous or more powerful.

Whatever goal he had, I don't believe he attained it.

What you say above makes sense to me, I see him in much the same light. My comment that you quoted is my thinking on why he failed to attain his goal but it can't shed any light on what that goal may be. Its my view that this hasn't gone as he expected, at least not yet.

If I'm wrong, and at this point he has actually achieved something that somehow benefits him, its hidden pretty deeply.

If he just likes how it feels to exercise power through violence, then what comes next is a pretty simple and horrific analysis.

 

[MindlessPieces]

Whatever goal he had, I don't believe he attained it.

What you say above makes sense to me, I see him in much the same light. My comment that you quoted is my thinking on why he failed to attain his goal but it can't shed any light on what that goal may be. Its my view that this hasn't gone as he expected, at least not yet.

I'm doing a lot of speculating, but let's just pretend the Saudi's said to Trump, you use USA to bomb Iran and then we will give you personally $2 Billion. So USA has bombed Iran, but now let's pretend that Saudi have paid Trump the $$$. Now Trump has achieved everything that he wanted out of this.

I do feel that normal people trying to make sense of Trump's actions and words don't actually know the game that Trump is playing. They assume a normal game, like, you bomb Iran to stop their nuclear program, or you bomb them to defeat their regime or something that most normal people and the media think, well this must be what's up.

But Trump is playing an entirely different, self centred game. A game where he can't really tell people that this is the goal of his actions. Because his MAGA base probably wouldn't be happy if they knew what he was really upto. He's supposed to be the anti corruption, anti establishment, America first president. That's what they believe, and that's the lens through which they see his actions.
Even Trump's detractors and the media view Trump in terms of "normal" and they say, well he is wanting to stop Iran's nuclear program, he is wanting to free the poor Iranian people from a ruthless regime, but then they get all confused, but we are not sure how his actions will achieve this, He failed, he should be embarrassed.

But Trump is patting himself on the back, did the bombing, got the billions, very happy, job well done.

 

[MindlessPieces]

If he just likes how it feels to exercise power through violence, then what comes next is a pretty simple and horrific analysis.

It could be as simple as that. A threat to other countries watching, that if they don't do what Trump wants, they could be next. Trump now has unilateral powers over the USA military, he can take out world leaders, can start wars, and is willing to do so. Cuba, you're next. Canada, how do you feel about being a 51st state. Greenland looks nice this time of year.

 

[puc]

...Pete Hegseth...

He read a prayer he said was first given by a military chaplain to the troops who captured then-President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela. “Let every round find its mark against the enemies of righteousness and our great nation,” Hegseth prayed during the livestreamed service. “Give them wisdom in every decision, endurance for the trial ahead, unbreakable unity, and overwhelming violence of action against those who deserve no mercy.” Hegseth frequently invokes his evangelical faith as head of the armed forces, depicting a Christian nation trying to vanquish its foes with military might. “I pursued my enemies and overtook them, and did not turn back till they were consumed,” he read from the Psalms on Wednesday.

Even though it's a 'gimme that oil' thing, it's just like Hegseth to justify all his violent intentions in religion. So, there's always a dollar behind the excuse, but still the excuse is always behind the profit.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Both Trump and Hegseth have quoted from the Old Testament, which is the basis for Judaism and is also important in Islam. Christianity is based on the New Testament, which to a significant extent supersedes the Old Testament, and includes lessons such as the Good Samaritan and "turn the other cheek". So quoting the Old Testament is not necessarily valid as a basis for Christian action.

 

[MindlessPieces]

Evidence of insider trading on Iran war grows

Unusually timed trades around Trump’s Iran announcement have raised questions about who knew what and when

www.salon.com

But someone seems to have known that Trump was going to back down exactly when he did. CNBC reported later that day that at 6:49 a.m., the S&P 500 e-Mini futures trading on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange — the world’s largest derivatives marketplace for futures and options, — saw a “sharp and isolated jump in volume.” It also happened on the Barito Renewables Energy (BREN) and West Texas Intermediate May futures oil markets, where contracts valued at $580 million were sold. Bloomberg News analyzed trading on those markets during the same period of time over the previous five days; the average trading level was around 700 contracts. In a one-minute period on Monday — between 6:49 and 6:50 — about 6,200 contracts were traded.


The only explanation that makes any sense is that someone knew that within 15 minutes Donald Trump was going to announce he was backing off his threats against Iran — and that the markets would surge on the news.



As Axios noted on Wednesday, “Mysterious trading patterns [have followed] Trump into war.” Each time he announces a consequential decision, the report found, an “epidemic of suspicious trading” occurs just before the news would affect the markets.

People appear to have been profiteering on the prediction-market website Polymarket as well, beginning with Trump’s military operation in Venezuela. According to the BBC, one trader made $436,000 on a $32,000 bet on the timing of the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro. CNN reported that another trader has made nearly $1 million since 2024 from “dozens of well-timed bets that correctly predicted U.S. and Israeli military actions against Iran,” profits almost certainly derived from insider information. According to the report, “the bettor won a staggering 93% of their five-figure wagers about Iran, even though the events they predicted were unannounced military operations.”

This threat is acute enough that observers are warning that the ability to anonymously make such large bets on current events could motivate the people involved to alter outcomes for their own financial benefit. This is bad when it comes to sports, but it’s downright terrifying when it comes to wars.

 

[Patxitxi]

...as are all wars it seems to me. Blood shed in the name of...

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) is a non-profit organization that advocates for religious freedom and separation of church and state in the US military and has been watching this unfold.

From the article: "A combat-unit commander told non-commissioned officers at a briefing Monday that the Iran war is part of God’s plan and that Pres. Donald Trump was “anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to cause Armageddon and mark his return to Earth,” according to a complaint by a non-commissioned officer."

Scary.

In the name of money.
Let's not be naive and confuse the objective of these guys.

 

[Patxitxi]

Whatever goal he had, I don't believe he attained it.

What you say above makes sense to me, I see him in much the same light. My comment that you quoted is my thinking on why he failed to attain his goal but it can't shed any light on what that goal may be. Its my view that this hasn't gone as he expected, at least not yet.

If I'm wrong, and at this point he has actually achieved something that somehow benefits him, its hidden pretty deeply.

If he just likes how it feels to exercise power through violence, then what comes next is a pretty simple and horrific analysis.

Very sorry, I very strongly disagree, let's please not confuse his objective.
It's just money, he has no other.
And before every single tweet, communicate and press release somebody is investing money, one way or the other in his name.
Thus his objective is being achieved every time he opens his mouth.
It's my simple minded opinion.

 

[EricDMMiller]

Look at the insane horseshit that mentally deranged lunatics in the US administration are saying.

No One at Waffle House Remembers FEMA Official Who Says He Teleported In

Gregg Phillips, who is in charge of responding to fires and floods, says the hand of God suddenly and mysteriously moved him to a 24-hour breakfast spot in Rome, Ga.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Patxitxi]

They are coming out from under the stones nowadays since nobody is stopping them... Why not?

 

[MindlessPieces]

In the name of money.
Let's not be naive and confuse the objective of these guys.

I think there are various groups.

For Trump it is money, power, fame, intimidation=power.
For some of his extremely evangelical supporters (including many in his administration) it is a war against Muslims, or a desire to bring on the End times so they can be in "biblical" times and meet the second coming of Jesus. Although if they did meet him, he wouldn't be white enough for them, wouldn't be American, would probably be too liberal.
For some it is a continued power grab, to take over government, take over military, purge people that aren't loyal and devoted to Trump.

 

[Patxitxi]

I think there are various groups.

For Trump it is money, power, fame, intimidation=power.
For some of his extremely evangelical supporters (including many in his administration) it is a war against Muslims, or a desire to bring on the End times so they can be in "biblical" times and meet the second coming of Jesus. Although if they did meet him, he wouldn't be white enough for them, wouldn't be American, would probably be too liberal.
For some it is a continued power grab, to take over government, take over military, purge people that aren't loyal and devoted to Trump.

Sorry to disagree... There's no difference! These are ultimately equivalent.

Money <=> Power <=> Fame <=> Religion

The end game is ALWAYS MONEY.

See below 4 extracts from internet.

While the "American Dream" suggests anyone can become president, the realities of fundraising and political organization make it impossible to win without massive financial resources behind the campaign. As one analyst noted, "You don't run campaigns and shmooze with people of high society without being wealthy to some degree".

L. Ron Hubbard "If you want to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be to start your own religion".

The Catholic Church's total wealth is difficult due to decentralized finances, but estimates suggest at least $73 billion to over $265 billion in total assets, including real estate, art, and investments.

Famous social media influencers and content creators have transitioned from internet personalities into entrepreneurs, leveraging massive followings to generate millions in annual income.

 

[Grinkle]

IMO saying everything is about money is overly simplistic.

I don’t believe, for example, that Trump is desirous of a coin being minted with his image on it because he sees that as a path to enrichment. He has access to more direct and less effortful and more profitable paths to enrichment, imo.

 

[fresh_42]

IMO saying everything is about money is overly simplistic.

I don’t believe, for example, that Trump is desirous of a coin being minted with his image on it because he sees that as a path to enrichment. He has access to more direct and less effortful and more profitable paths to enrichment, imo.

The coin is explained by his F60.8. However, with every one of his erratic decisions, he can make millions on the stock and futures markets. This entire cabinet, plus some judges at the Supreme Court, is a really huge case of insider trading. I once had a job in the back office of analysts and traders of an English Bank. If I recall what all I wasn't allowed to buy, this American administration is simply a bunch of thieves and criminals, unfortunately, part of SCOTUS included. To call the current USA a banana republic would be an insult to banana republics.

 

[Grinkle]

a really huge case of insider trading

Conceptually, yes. I agree with what you expressed in your post. I offer the below as a matter of interest, not rebuttal.

I recently learned, much to my displeasure, that at least in the US to be legally guilty of insider trading one must be using information that was obtained by a person who has acknowledged in a written agreement that they are an insider.

For example, a corporate employee who is offered a promotion to a position that provides insider knowledge must sign an agreement to be bound by insider trading restriction as a condition of that promotion. If I knowingly get information from that insider and I trade on that information before its public, then I am guilty of insider trading, and probably so is the insider who gave me that information. But if I get information from someone who is not, by their own agreement, and insider, and I trade on it, the law is not clear.

The above is a huge issue when there are no political consequences for blatantly using ones own influence over the market to profit over others.

These loopholes also apply, for example, to athletes who make in-game decisions to profit from a wager - say one wagers that there will be a three point attempt in the first minute of a given game. Easy for an athlete to take that shot with no one the wiser. This is the context in which I heard the insider trader definition, its my own extrapolation that it also probably applies equally to politicians.

 

[fresh_42]

It is way harder, at least in Europe, for an athlete to take advantage of bets. I know of hard penalties for Snooker players, soccer players, and referees who tried to manipulate match outcomes. However, I don't know of bets so sophisticated as "within the first minute". They are probably impossible to detect.

 

[Grinkle]

take advantage of bets.

I forgot to mention - the reason this is relevant to insider trading laws is because one can now trade futures contracts on events happening vs not happening, so it comes under the SEC and not the gaming laws.

 

[fresh_42]

I think it would be good if Trump had to compensate Iran for the damages out of his own pocket.

 

[Borg]

I think it would be good if Trump had to compensate Iran for the damages out of his own pocket.

They would have to get in line along with the rest of the world.

 

[MindlessPieces]

I think it would be good if Trump had to compensate Iran for the damages out of his own pocket.

Like how they are compensating Michael Flynn, and probably will compensate Steve Bannon for punishing them of crimes committed in Trump's favour. Trump is asking to be compensated hundreds of millions for having to endure investigations into him. It seems crime really does pay.

Step 1. Commit a crime that benefits Trump
Step 2, get investigated
Step 3, get found guilty
Step 4 (optional) receive some kind of punishment (unless you are the president)
Step 5 DOJ says they are dropping the case (this can come before/instead of step 3 or 4)
Step 6 ask for large monetary compensation from Trump's puppet DOJ
Ste 7 receive truck carrying tax payer's money to your property (if Trump sees a future use for you)

 

[Patxitxi]

IMO saying everything is about money is overly simplistic.

I don’t believe, for example, that Trump is desirous of a coin being minted with his image on it because he sees that as a path to enrichment. He has access to more direct and less effortful and more profitable paths to enrichment, imo.

Yes, you are right. I don't think when he goes to the bathroom and poops he's doing it to make more money either. It's more of a physical survival strategy. The coin thing may be a mental survival one, just the need to feed his permanently starving ego. It could also help selling used cars in TV when they recognize his face on the screen?

 

[Grinkle]

Step 1. Commit a crime that benefits Trump
Step 2, get investigated
Step 3, get found guilty
Step 4 (optional) receive some kind of punishment (unless you are the president)
Step 5 DOJ says they are dropping the case (this can come before/instead of step 3 or 4)
Step 6 ask for large monetary compensation from Trump's puppet DOJ
Ste 7 receive truck carrying tax payer's money to your property (if Trump sees a future use for you)

You missed some steps. They are important because not including them lets the American voters off the hook.

Step 0 - Elect Trump POTUS
Step 1.1 - Elect someone else POTUS
Step 4.1 - Re-elect Trump

 

[MindlessPieces]

You missed some steps. They are important because not including them lets the American voters off the hook.

Step 0 - Elect Trump POTUS
Step 1.1 - Elect someone else POTUS
Step 4.1 - Re-elect Trump

Yes fair enough, there does seem to be 70+ million people complicit.

I can't really understand how so many people can have voted for Trump again given the insurrection, his disgraceful behaviour, being found guilty of 34 federal crimes, found civilly liable effectively for rape.

But then again, those people only watch right wing media (mostly opinion shows and not news shows on those media outlets) and disbelieve anyone that says otherwise. So they don't believe Jan 6 was an insurrection, they believe the 34 federal crimes were trumped up and the judge and jury were biased Trump haters, they don't believe Carrol and the judge in that case too.

Well, either they don't believe, many think the Russia investigation was controlled and instigated by the Dems, they don't realise that Mueller was employed and handled by the Republican acting attorney general.

But one nagging thought I have about all this, is that there are many Trump voters who know Trump lied about voter fraud and just wanted to ignore the election and keep the presidency and they are OK with it. These people don't want elections anymore, they don't care if their guy is committing fraud and/or crimes. They just want Republicans to remain in power at all costs and not have Dems in power. They want Republican leaning judges, they what a justice system that favours Republicans. What they hate the most, is Democrats and Liberals. So they don't actually want democracy, they want a system where Republicans control everything.

 

[Patxitxi]

Yes fair enough, there does seem to be 70+ million people complicit.

I can't really understand how so many people can have voted for Trump again given the insurrection, his disgraceful behaviour, being found guilty of 34 federal crimes, found civilly liable effectively for rape.

But then again, those people only watch right wing media (mostly opinion shows and not news shows on those media outlets) and disbelieve anyone that says otherwise. So they don't believe Jan 6 was an insurrection, they believe the 34 federal crimes were trumped up and the judge and jury were biased Trump haters, they don't believe Carrol and the judge in that case too.

Well, either they don't believe, many think the Russia investigation was controlled and instigated by the Dems, they don't realise that Mueller was employed and handled by the Republican acting attorney general.

But one nagging thought I have about all this, is that there are many Trump voters who know Trump lied about voter fraud and just wanted to ignore the election and keep the presidency and they are OK with it. These people don't want elections anymore, they don't care if their guy is committing fraud and/or crimes. They just want Republicans to remain in power at all costs and not have Dems in power. They want Republican leaning judges, they what a justice system that favours Republicans. What they hate the most, is Democrats and Liberals. So they don't actually want democracy, they want a system where Republicans control everything.

People's motives for voting this psycho are unfathomable... When I asked in social media -Are you happy you voted King Trump "The Humble"?- I had a few saying "Yes I am happy I won for once" or "Anything but voting a democrat" they said tgey didn't care about the cost of living, gas prices, the war and its death toll or anything else.
Go figure!

 

[MindlessPieces]

People's motives for voting this psycho are unfathomable... When I asked in social media -Are you happy you voted King Trump "The Humble"?- I had a few saying "Yes I am happy I won for once" or "Anything but voting a democrat" they said tgey didn't care about the cost of living, gas prices, the war and its death toll or anything else.
Go figure!

At least they are being honest.

Would be interesting to know what they thought was so bad about a Democrat?
The answer, I'm sure would be a misconception about what Democrats want.

They listen only to right wing media opinion shows. Those shows call Democrats socialists, lunatics that want boys to be girls, want to take away all your guns, hate the country, hate god etc...

 

[Borg]

At least they are being honest.

Would be interesting to know what they thought was so bad about a Democrat?
The answer, I'm sure would be a misconception about what Democrats want.

They listen only to right wing media opinion shows. Those shows call Democrats socialists, lunatics that want boys to be girls, want to take away all your guns, hate the country, hate god etc...

I've heard a lot of that from them. I also agree with the right wing brainwashing because I've seen that a lot as well. The ones that I know have typically latched on to one particular belief or another to justify why they shouldn't vote for a Democrat. I've stopped talking to most of them because I just can't take the stupidity and hypocrisy anymore.

Then there's the psychological difficulty for people to actually admit when they're wrong that keeps them entrenched in those beliefs. And even if you convince them that something is wrong, they just find the next wrong-headed belief and latch onto that.

 

[MindlessPieces]

I've heard a lot of that from them. I also agree with the right wing brainwashing because I've seen that a lot as well. The ones that I know have typically latched on to one particular belief or another to justify why they shouldn't vote for a Democrat. I've stopped talking to most of them because I just can't take the stupidity and hypocrisy anymore.

Then there's the psychological difficulty for people to actually admit when they're wrong that keeps them entrenched in those beliefs. And even if you convince them that something is wrong, they just find the next wrong-headed belief and latch onto that.

So what is the way out of this mess?

IF you had independant, journalistic news then at least people would be properly informed.
However, news for many people is totally boring.

When they get alarmist stuff from their opinion "news" shows then they fear missing out on what is happening, so they stay tuned in to that. Run out of time to watch real news. Plus if real news said something bad about thier guy then they take offense and call it fake news and so go back to the opinion "news" shows they love.

The opinion shows make money based on viewership, not based on journalistic integrity, so they keep ramping up the alarm, keep saying nice things about Trump and bad things about Dems.

How does USA stop this cycle??

 

[fresh_42]

I am mainly surprised by how useless the parliament is. This is definitely not a democracy. Electing a king every four years isn't sufficient to be called a democratic system. In other (democratic) countries I know, parliament would have long withdrawn its confidence in the president, and thus his mandate. New elections would be the consequence, not simply replacing one madman with another madman.

This system needs a complete revision, which of course won't happen.

 

[MindlessPieces]

I am mainly surprised by how useless the parliament is. This is definitely not a democracy. Electing a king every four years isn't sufficient to be called a democratic system. In other (democratic) countries I know, parliament would have long withdrawn its confidence in the president, and thus his mandate. New elections would be the consequence, not simply replacing one madman with another madman.

This system needs a complete revision, which of course won't happen.

In NZ the party would simply vote a new party leader and that new leader is then the Prime Minister. No need for a snap election.

In NZ we have an MMP system where there are several parties that win seats in parliament. If one party doesn't get enough seats to rule the country, they then negotiate with other parties and then form a coallition government. I think it is better this way as you are guaranteed to have a government which in some way represents the majority vote, plus you get to see what people want. Not just conservative vs liberal, but you could have a religious party if you want, you could have a green party (save the planet type thing), a far right party, a moderate right, far left, moderate left, centre and then you can see how people vote. Obviously the far right and moderate right will be more likely to do a coalition, but you can then see that most of the "conservative" vote goes moderate rather than far right and that gives the moderate party/members more leverage over the conservative policies, etc.

 

[fresh_42]

In NZ the party would simply vote a new party leader and that new leader is then the Prime Minister. No need for a snap election.

In NZ we have an MMP system where there are several parties that win seats in parliament. If one party doesn't get enough seats to rule the country, they then negotiate with other parties and then form a coallition government. I think it is better this way as you are guaranteed to have a government which in some way represents the majority vote, plus you get to see what people want. Not just conservative vs liberal, but you could have a religious party if you want, you could have a green party (save the planet type thing), a far right party, a moderate right, far left, moderate left, centre and then you can see how people vote. Obviously the far right and moderate right will be more likely to do a coalition, but you can then see that most of the "conservative" vote goes moderate rather than far right and that gives the moderate party/members more leverage over the conservative policies, etc.

Same here, or in GB. Replacing the party leader is only a tool if someone is as mad and stupid as Trump is. We have what we call a "constructive vote of no confidence" when the opposition in parliament requires a check on whether the chancellor still has a majority. If not, then there are a few possibilities. Our president can, as it is in France, order someone else to build a majority, possibly in other constellations, or he can suspend the parliament if no other possibility is found and order new elections.

In comparison, the American parliament is a laughingstock.