American gun laws and attitudes towards gun ownership
- Context: Civil Rights
- Thread starter fresh_42
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SUMMARY
The discussion centers on American gun laws and public attitudes towards gun ownership, highlighting the complexity of regulations across different states. Participants express concerns about the representation of opinions in polls, particularly regarding the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the perceived extremity of gun culture in the U.S. Comparisons are drawn with countries like Australia and Germany, emphasizing the need for nuanced understanding of firearm regulations. The conversation reveals a significant divide in attitudes towards gun ownership, influenced by regional laws and personal experiences.
PREREQUISITES- Understanding of the Second Amendment and its implications
- Familiarity with U.S. federal and state firearm regulations
- Knowledge of public opinion polling methodologies
- Awareness of international firearm laws for comparative analysis
- Research the impact of the NRA on U.S. gun legislation
- Explore comparative studies of gun laws in Australia, Canada, and Germany
- Investigate the role of public opinion polls in shaping firearm policy
- Learn about the legal distinctions between open carry and concealed carry laws in various states
Policy analysts, legal scholars, sociologists, and anyone interested in understanding the dynamics of gun ownership and regulation in the United States.
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Oops, sorry about that. Here is a link to the survey; It is quite long.
2021 National Firearms Survey: Updated Analysis Including Types of Firearms Owned
This report summarizes the findings of a national survey of firearms ownership and use conducted between February 17th and March 23rd, 2021 by the professional
papers.ssrn.com
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The US Attorney General has just allowed the sale of the auto-sear or forced reset trigger, which converts a semi-automatic rifle into a machine gun.
https://apnews.com/article/justice-...set-triggers-c7e5e6ee65171c50c10d4384dd181fec
We only want mass shootings to be first-class.
https://apnews.com/article/justice-...set-triggers-c7e5e6ee65171c50c10d4384dd181fec
We only want mass shootings to be first-class.
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Good news for everybody who hates Americans: prepare popcorn, lean back, and watch.
The American gun laws weren't understandable to Europeans before. That doesn't change much. It simply doesn't make sense. We have (licensed) hunters and sporting clubs, too, even without spreading AK-47s. What the heck are they good for except for murder?
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I'm sure they'll offer plenty of thoughts and prayers.
I imagine all criminals, or those set on using a gun to commit a crime, do support registration, and access to the data, as what better way to ensure ones safety than to know where the guns are located and by who. Deaths by gun violence may decrease for something such as home invasions which can then be safely carried out on unprotected houses versus protected houses.
Of course, criminals would also have to register their guns, or be at risk of severe penalties, similar to what regular folk are subject to, or performing their profession without proper training, storage, and lack of permit for possession of said firearm.
Is this dystopian, or what?
Or reality?
In the US, auto registration is not publicly available, I expect the same would be true of firearm registration. Only law enforcement can look up a license plate number. I think the average criminal would not be resourceful enough to hack into this information - but of course that's just my speculation. Crooked police could certainly seed thieves with information in exchange for a kickback I suppose.
Hawaii and DC require registration of all firearms, and there are a handful of states that require registration of some firearms - New York, New Jersey, CA by way of dealer record keeping requirements, I think some others.
The thing I wrote was my backward way of stating that criminal elements do not register their arms, and never will. A registry does not curtail their possession. If that is where most gun violence occurs, rather than near or at home. But proponents for a registry attempt to convince the population that it is criminal elements committing the most gun violence - See post #47 by @MindlessPieces .
In addition, more suicides, than homicides, occur by firearm, which again would mostly be in a home setting, something that a registry would have little effect upon as I see it.
A policeman going to a house, checking the registry, and finding he inhabitants not in the system, had still best proceed cautiously. Especially in a country with high gun ownership. And even is those places with a less of a proliferation. People seem to be more trigger happy and less respectful of authority.
Canada
I don't know what he gun laws were while growing up.
Guns were open display at hardware stores, and ammunition easy to purchase.
But,
Single shot rifle OK
Semi automatic Not OK then OK
Automatic Not OK
Magazine size Reasonable, don't remember, maybe 8 max
Pistol Permit needed. Not OK for regular folk.
Shotgun OK
Were these written rules, or just tradition ??
Also, don't know when it changed.
It seems as if overnight an AK47 was obtainable around 20-30 years ago
Hardware stores started locking up guns and ammunition.
Pellet and BB guns too locked up.
Not sure where one can even buy a gun these days.
What changed and why.
Don't know. Was it:
Relaxation of rules of possession
Flooding the country from the US in what is available.
More gun enthusiasts, asking for more accessibility on new models
NRA, or similar organization lobbying
Mass shootings.
Anyways, Canada as a whole has a homicide rate by gun violence around 2 per 100,000.
Much less than anywhere in the US
And they do want to put in a gun registry, restrict models, and gun buyback program.
Gun registry estimated 100$ million by government.
Scrapped when actuals cost ballooned approaching a billion $
Buy back cost estimated also lowballed to gain population approval
At present, not sure what's up, but I do believe that the anti-gun movement and their naive way of urban thinking that portrays anyone who owns a gun as a despicable character, just fires up any gun owner, and sets up two opposing camps that can't agree on anything.
I don't know what he gun laws were while growing up.
Guns were open display at hardware stores, and ammunition easy to purchase.
But,
Single shot rifle OK
Semi automatic Not OK then OK
Automatic Not OK
Magazine size Reasonable, don't remember, maybe 8 max
Pistol Permit needed. Not OK for regular folk.
Shotgun OK
Were these written rules, or just tradition ??
Also, don't know when it changed.
It seems as if overnight an AK47 was obtainable around 20-30 years ago
Hardware stores started locking up guns and ammunition.
Pellet and BB guns too locked up.
Not sure where one can even buy a gun these days.
What changed and why.
Don't know. Was it:
Relaxation of rules of possession
Flooding the country from the US in what is available.
More gun enthusiasts, asking for more accessibility on new models
NRA, or similar organization lobbying
Mass shootings.
Anyways, Canada as a whole has a homicide rate by gun violence around 2 per 100,000.
Much less than anywhere in the US
And they do want to put in a gun registry, restrict models, and gun buyback program.
Gun registry estimated 100$ million by government.
Scrapped when actuals cost ballooned approaching a billion $
Buy back cost estimated also lowballed to gain population approval
At present, not sure what's up, but I do believe that the anti-gun movement and their naive way of urban thinking that portrays anyone who owns a gun as a despicable character, just fires up any gun owner, and sets up two opposing camps that can't agree on anything.
Agreed.
My own opinion on registration is that it makes sense to do because a firearm is a potentially very dangerous thing to own and I imagine law enforcement would find many legitimate uses for such a database, but I don't think it would impact gun deaths very much, if at all. It might just help solve some crimes.
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As a by the by. Many people get murdered by people that weren't previously considered "criminal elements".
Anyway, if there is a gun registry and if "criminal elements" do not register their arms, then the benefit of the gun registry is that if the police search a property and find unregistered guns then they can:
1. Conviscate those guns.
2. Prosecute the owner of those guns.
In this way people that have gone through the correct legal process don't have anything to worry about. Criminal elements that have had their property searched will lose their guns and the police will have a legal reason to prosecute, or detain those criminal elements.
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I'm not an American (USA), never been to USA or any of The Americas.
Guns, of course are bought, sold, owned, used in most countries.
I find what is happening in USA to be sadly confusing.
Many USA folk are worried about terrorism on their shores, worried about immigrants killing or harming Americans or their pets. And yet, when you look at the death toll of Americans dying by guns each year. I mean, where should the focus be, really?
Why do people own guns?
For most countries (not exclusive to USA) people own guns for:
Guns for pest control and hunting should be suitably powered considering what the target is. e.g. for rabbits, and possums a 0.22 calibre is appropriate, for ducks and magpies a shotgun is appropriate, for deer, goats, bears something much more powerful, like maybe a 0.308
How many bullets are required and how quickly do they need to be chambered?
You don't need a fully automatic for hunting or pest control. You don't even need a semi-automatic. Bolt action, Pump action is sufficient.
How large a magazine do you need? I don't really know, but if you need more than 6 I personally would think you ought to get better at aiming and shooting.
Bump stocks are never needed.
For self protection - one has to ask, are people actually safer with guns or without guns? Is society a safer place if the public don't have access to guns for self protection?
For protecting other people in public? I would imagine that the police who are trained for this type of gun use, are very careful so as not to shoot bystanders, or to be too quick to shoot a suspect who just might not actually have a gun on them.
For protection against a rogue government. Do you really think a home joe with a few guns is a match for the American Military?
What I really struggle with in the USA argument against gun control, is why do people need guns with capabilities that are not required for sport and hunting, e.g. magazines with 20 or more bullets? Why do people need bump stocks, etc.....
Why aren't people on that side of the argument willing to make compromises for the public safety?
When those people complain about pro gun control people coming up with proposed legeslation, they seem just to complain. "Oh you don't know anything about guns <scoff> that won't solve anything <hmmph> more people die by handguns rather than rifles, why focus on AR-15s. OMG you don't even know what an assault rifle is, you don't know what you are talking about. You aren't qualified to determine how to make guns safe. etc.....
So, why instead of scoffing and deriding people trying to make society safer, why don't these gun experts come up with some pragmatic gun control rules that they believe will make a tangible differnce.., And NO, the answer isn't MORE GUNS!
Guns, of course are bought, sold, owned, used in most countries.
I find what is happening in USA to be sadly confusing.
Many USA folk are worried about terrorism on their shores, worried about immigrants killing or harming Americans or their pets. And yet, when you look at the death toll of Americans dying by guns each year. I mean, where should the focus be, really?
Why do people own guns?
For most countries (not exclusive to USA) people own guns for:
- Pest control
- Hunting (for food or "sport")
- As a sport (shooting at targets
- Collecting
- Trading
- Crime
- Squat team or Armed Response teams in the police force
- Military folk (of course)
- As a constitutional right
- For self protection
- For protection from a rogue government
Guns for pest control and hunting should be suitably powered considering what the target is. e.g. for rabbits, and possums a 0.22 calibre is appropriate, for ducks and magpies a shotgun is appropriate, for deer, goats, bears something much more powerful, like maybe a 0.308
How many bullets are required and how quickly do they need to be chambered?
You don't need a fully automatic for hunting or pest control. You don't even need a semi-automatic. Bolt action, Pump action is sufficient.
How large a magazine do you need? I don't really know, but if you need more than 6 I personally would think you ought to get better at aiming and shooting.
Bump stocks are never needed.
For self protection - one has to ask, are people actually safer with guns or without guns? Is society a safer place if the public don't have access to guns for self protection?
For protecting other people in public? I would imagine that the police who are trained for this type of gun use, are very careful so as not to shoot bystanders, or to be too quick to shoot a suspect who just might not actually have a gun on them.
For protection against a rogue government. Do you really think a home joe with a few guns is a match for the American Military?
What I really struggle with in the USA argument against gun control, is why do people need guns with capabilities that are not required for sport and hunting, e.g. magazines with 20 or more bullets? Why do people need bump stocks, etc.....
Why aren't people on that side of the argument willing to make compromises for the public safety?
When those people complain about pro gun control people coming up with proposed legeslation, they seem just to complain. "Oh you don't know anything about guns <scoff> that won't solve anything <hmmph> more people die by handguns rather than rifles, why focus on AR-15s. OMG you don't even know what an assault rifle is, you don't know what you are talking about. You aren't qualified to determine how to make guns safe. etc.....
So, why instead of scoffing and deriding people trying to make society safer, why don't these gun experts come up with some pragmatic gun control rules that they believe will make a tangible differnce.., And NO, the answer isn't MORE GUNS!
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Why don't we have better gun laws? Because Congress won't pass them. Why won't Congress pass them? Because most think that there is a slippery slope to gun bans? Probably not the main reason. The gun industry lobby seems most likely seeing their market decreasing. Again, it is big business standing in the way of sensible legislation. think of the tobacco industry.
Before I go on, I found an interesting statistic. The geographical area with the most homicides per capita is the Americas, hands down. Followed by Africa and Asia. Europe is by far the safest. The US ranks 10th out of the 52 countries, territories, etc, with 5.8 homicides/100,000. Canada is third with 2.3 homicides/100,000, and the Turks and Caicos Is last with 76.6. Yeah, yikes, and that's a resort island.
BTW, fewer than 400 homicides (self-defense) by civilians were declared justifiable by authorities. Gun rights proponents often declare it is in the thousands, with tens of thousands of other crimes deterred.
This is not to defend the US, but there is a real problem in the Americas overall.
Other interesting facts are that 40% of homicides in the US involve people who know one another, family, friends, neighbors, or intimate partners. Most victims are men, and more than half are black. Fifty percent of homicides are unsolved. and for many, the motive is unknown. Most of these "facts" are estimates since the reporting of them to the FBI or CDC is voluntary. Think about all the murderers currently circulating throughout the country.
I think guns for emotionally mediated homicides are the weapon of choice since they are actually less personal compared to a knife or blunt object. Only about 10% of homicides are felony homicides, those committed in the commission of a felony, as armed robbery. Guns account for about 80% of all homicides.
Currently, convicted felons may not possess a firearm. Since this is an apparent violation of the 2nd Amendment, you may wonder how this law was passed. If you are interested in challenges to current gun laws, see
What new gun owners often overlook is the responsibility they incur with a firearm, including properly securing it, becoming proficient in its use, properly maintaining it, and knowing relevant laws. Shooting someone to protect property is generally not a sufficient reason to shoot someone. Many have gone to prison because they did not understand the law. @Borg said that he had two people point guns at him. This is termed brandishing a weapon and is at least a misdemeanor and can be a felony. You never, never point a firearm at someone without the intention of shooting them.
Before I go on, I found an interesting statistic. The geographical area with the most homicides per capita is the Americas, hands down. Followed by Africa and Asia. Europe is by far the safest. The US ranks 10th out of the 52 countries, territories, etc, with 5.8 homicides/100,000. Canada is third with 2.3 homicides/100,000, and the Turks and Caicos Is last with 76.6. Yeah, yikes, and that's a resort island.
BTW, fewer than 400 homicides (self-defense) by civilians were declared justifiable by authorities. Gun rights proponents often declare it is in the thousands, with tens of thousands of other crimes deterred.
This is not to defend the US, but there is a real problem in the Americas overall.
Other interesting facts are that 40% of homicides in the US involve people who know one another, family, friends, neighbors, or intimate partners. Most victims are men, and more than half are black. Fifty percent of homicides are unsolved. and for many, the motive is unknown. Most of these "facts" are estimates since the reporting of them to the FBI or CDC is voluntary. Think about all the murderers currently circulating throughout the country.
I think guns for emotionally mediated homicides are the weapon of choice since they are actually less personal compared to a knife or blunt object. Only about 10% of homicides are felony homicides, those committed in the commission of a felony, as armed robbery. Guns account for about 80% of all homicides.
Currently, convicted felons may not possess a firearm. Since this is an apparent violation of the 2nd Amendment, you may wonder how this law was passed. If you are interested in challenges to current gun laws, see
What new gun owners often overlook is the responsibility they incur with a firearm, including properly securing it, becoming proficient in its use, properly maintaining it, and knowing relevant laws. Shooting someone to protect property is generally not a sufficient reason to shoot someone. Many have gone to prison because they did not understand the law. @Borg said that he had two people point guns at him. This is termed brandishing a weapon and is at least a misdemeanor and can be a felony. You never, never point a firearm at someone without the intention of shooting them.