Collection of worrying incidents

[sbrothy]

I am still of the opinion that separating children from their parents is a crime against humanity. Arrested since 2025? No legal representation? Even in the Middle Ages, they knew the Habeas Corpus principle.

Yeah, despite my sarcasm we're in agreement that it's horrible and quite possibly a violation of the Human Rights Charter. Even the Magna Carta probably already mentioned established this principle. What's the name of the US principle that there's no murder without a body (EDIT: I realize it's not so clear cut anymore)? Doesn't that also sound like "Habeus Corpus"? I may be mixing them up, or it possibly covers several cases.

EDIT2: I should really wait with writing my posts until I check my sources. I seem to get lucky often though.

EDIT3:

Ah of course the phrase is "corpus delicti", "body of the crime". Although it's been considerably relaxed in later years. And rightly so if you ask me. Especially with the advancements in forensic science.

 

[sbrothy]

I don't understand how that can possibly work.

How does a judge receive a plea from a 10-year-old? How can an answer - whether it is "guilty" or "not guilty" - be valid from a 10-year-old?

Then, say he is found guilty. How does deporting a 10-year-old work when he is sent to a country he's never been to? You leave him at the airport and tell him, "Good luck!"?

But to be really serious, it's not a case of finding a child guilty or not. It's a judicial hearing on what is best for the child. That it often ends badly is because of the laws that judges have to decide from. It's seldom pretty.

 

[jack action]

it's not a case of finding a child guilty or not. It's a judicial hearing on what is best for the child.

A 10-year-old Venezuelan boy, Wilfredo Hoyos-Gomez, appeared without legal representation in a Texas immigration court [...] DHS is seeking to deport him to Ecuador, a country he has never visited, [...]

I don't think the Department of Homeland Security seeking deportation is about a judicial hearing on what is best for the child.

Usually, the first question you are asked when appearing before a judge is how you plead to the accusations, in this case, entering the country illegally. How can anyone consider the answer to such a question from a 10-year-old, not represented by a responsible adult in any way, as legit?

 

[sbrothy]

I don't think the Department of Homeland Security seeking deportation is about a judicial hearing on what is best for the child.

Usually, the first question you are asked when appearing before a judge is how you plead to the accusations, in this case, entering the country illegally. How can anyone consider the answer to such a question from a 10-year-old, not represented by a responsible adult in any way, as legit?

Well, it's like that in Denmark. But I guess all bets are off when it comes to the States. Which just makes it so much worse and sad. I mean what can a 10 year old boy possibly be "guilty" off? That his parents in a despearate panic sent him alone to Western Europe or the US? Yeah that sounds like a crime! Send the poor kid home so he can help build up his country (or possibly be recruited into MS-13 or some paramilitary group fighting for "freedom" (read: putting some other corrupt idiot in power).

EDIT: And if he came from Italy it's back in the waiting arms of the 'Ndrangheta.

Activities: Racketeering, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, loan-sharking, money laundering, fraud, extortion, murder, robbery and kidnapping

Or wait... there you have to be family. But if he's bright he might have a future there anyway as a lowpaid killer or smuggler. I swear I was close to getting sucked into all this crap. HA told me they also need lawyers. And since I said no to the military they were willing to pay for my education. Like out of some bad movie.

EDIT: "Luckily", my primary contact died in a car crash. Good riddance!


EDIT3: Oh, sorry for the sarcasm. I've just finished my breakfast.

 

[sbrothy]

I know you can read Wiki youselves, this just shocked me:

Estimates in 2013 suggested the organization's revenue reached €53 billion. A U.S. diplomatic cable from 2010 purportedly estimated that the 'Ndrangheta's illicit activities, encompassing drug trafficking, extortion, and money laundering, accounted for approximately three percent of Italy's GDP.

---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Ndrangheta

But yeah, basically OFFTOPIC. Sorry.

 

[sbrothy]

I don't think the Department of Homeland Security seeking deportation is about a judicial hearing on what is best for the child.

Usually, the first question you are asked when appearing before a judge is how you plead to the accusations, in this case, entering the country illegally. How can anyone consider the answer to such a question from a 10-year-old, not represented by a responsible adult in any way, as legit?

This just goes to show the lightyears between US "justice" and (Western) European "justice". No Danish court would start with asking a minor if he's guilty of anything unless it's a case of criminal law (I mean robbery, stealing, murder, jaywalking etc.)

On the other hand with how much I stay updated I'd probably be in for a surprise. Still, @fresh_42 , a German court wouldn't do that either, would it?

 

[sbrothy]

On a "lighter" note, I heard Germany is about to begin rearmament of the conventional armed forces. In the future we're gonna look to you for defense. We live in interesting times.

 

[fresh_42]

On the other hand with how much I stay updated I'd probably be in for a surprise. Still, @fresh_42 , a German court wouldn't do that either, would it?

You wouldn't even end up in front of a judge if you weren't at least 14.

 

[sbrothy]

No right? Not without at least a legal guardian and a lawyer. A kid that age probably wouldn't even be summoned before a judge.

EDIT: There's something seriously wrong over there. But that's hardly news.

 

[Grinkle]

Not without at least a legal guardian and a lawyer.

IMO this is the issue. Going to immigration court before being deported is due process and much better than just letting the Dept of the Interior deport at will - but not having any help with it, at least for minors, seems horrible.

My understanding, which may be wrong -

Its not a criminal proceeding - that is why there is no lawyer provided. The summoned people are subject to deportation, not any criminal penalty or conviction. Being in the country illegally is a crime, but that is not prosecuted in immigration court, it would be prosecuted in a criminal court, and if a criminal conviction were sought, a lawyer would have to be provided for that proceeding. Immigration status is treated in immigration court as an administrative thing, not a criminal thing.

Not saying that makes it better not to allow at least minors legal advice in these proceedings. Children as young as four have been in this position, according to Chat.

 

[sbrothy]

IMO this is the issue. Going to immigration court before being deported is due process and much better than just letting the Dept of the Interior deport at will - but not having any help with it, at least for minors, seems horrible.

My understanding, which may be wrong -

Its not a criminal proceeding - that is why there is no lawyer provided. The summoned people are subject to deportation, not any criminal penalty or conviction. Being in the country illegally is a crime, but that is not prosecuted in immigration court, it would be prosecuted in a criminal court, and if a criminal conviction were sought, a lawyer would have to be provided for that proceeding. Immigration status is treated in immigration court as an administrative thing, not a criminal thing.

Not saying that makes it better not to allow at least minors legal advice in these proceedings. Children as young as four have been in this position, according to Chat.

I sincerely hope this is an American speciality.

 

[Grinkle]

I sincerely hope this is an American speciality.

Chat estimates that during the Obama administration, about 100k minors were in immigration court without a guardian or a lawyer. American, indeed.

 

[sbrothy]

Chat estimates that during the Obama administration, about 100k minors were in immigration court without a guardian or a lawyer. American, indeed.

I miss words.... I already gave "horrific" a good workout. "horrendous"? "preposterous"?

BTW, what do you mean by "Chat"?

EDIT: Also, I hope an "angry" reaction isn't interpreted by the forum software as I'm angry on you personally or that I don't like you contribution. I hope it's obvious that what I mean is that the fact of what you say makes me angry!

 

[Grinkle]

BTW, what do you mean by "Chat"?

ChatGPT - me being colloquial.

I hope an "angry" reaction isn't interpreted by the forum software as I'm angry on you personally

No, I didn't take it that way. I know what you meant, but thanks for clarifying in any case.

As an aside, a (IMO) common trick slanted media (either left or right) will do is to present a fact without context, assuming the user will interpret the fact as unusual or requiring explanation when really its an example of a long standing situation that the reader was previously unaware of.

In this particular case, given its German language media, perhaps the author was simply unaware that they were reporting one case of something that is common practice and has been for a very long time in the US.

In this particular case, the context matters a great deal - one should not take away the impression that defeating Republicans in the mid-terms or the next presidential election will mean that no more minors appear in immigration court without a guardian or legal aid. The flaws with US immigration policy are much more deep-rooted than just Trump or MAGA.

 

[Grinkle]

Here's a case from 8 years ago.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/08/627082032/1-year-old-shows-up-in-immigration-court

Absurd is too kind a word.

 

[Borg]

It just defies understanding.

 

[jack action]

Here's a case from 8 years ago.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/08/627082032/1-year-old-shows-up-in-immigration-court

Absurd is too kind a word.

I'm without words. How can anyone in the U.S. still trust the justice system with something like that happening?

He drank a bottle of milk and played with a purple ball as he waited for the immigration judge, The Associated Press reported.

John W. Richardson, the judge at the Phoenix courthouse, said he was "embarrassed to ask" if the defendant understood the proceedings. "I don't know who you would explain it to, unless you think that a 1-year-old could learn immigration law," he told Johan's attorney.

How can a judge accept this ridiculous role? How can anyone take their rulings seriously after that?

I know they tolerate a lot in the USA, but this ... WOW!

I couldn't believe it, but after a search, I found this CNN report:

​

How is this not on the news 24/7, worldwide? Tariffs and the war in Iran are nothing compared to this. How can any Trump supporter keep supporting this administration after hearing such a ridiculous decision? Wasn't this whole deportation of illegal immigrants created to protect society from violent criminals? Toddlers, really?

At least, it seems some people are doing something (again, how is this not in the new 24/7, worldwide?):

Markey, Hirono, Colleagues Reintroduce Legislation to Guarantee Legal Representation for Unaccompanied Children in Immigration Proceedings | U.S. Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts

Washington (April 3, 2025) – Senator Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) today joined Senator Mazie K. Hirono...

www.markey.senate.gov

But what a waste of time for politicians.

 

[sbrothy]

It just defies understanding.

And they call it "the best system in the world"?! Obviously they haven't seen the world.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

It just defies understanding.

The cruelty is the point, it's not a bug, it's a feature. This admin is evil.

 

[sbrothy]

"Make Iran Ungovernable" - Tracking Efforts to Destroy Iran's Police Infrastructure (Bellingcat)

 

[sbrothy]

I'm without words. How can anyone in the U.S. still trust the justice system with something like that happening?

How can a judge accept this ridiculous role? How can anyone take their rulings seriously after that?

I know they tolerate a lot in the USA, but this ... WOW!

I couldn't believe it, but after a search, I found this CNN report:

​

How is this not on the news 24/7, worldwide? Tariffs and the war in Iran are nothing compared to this. How can any Trump supporter keep supporting this administration after hearing such a ridiculous decision? Wasn't this whole deportation of illegal immigrants created to protect society from violent criminals? Toddlers, really?

At least, it seems some people are doing something (again, how is this not in the new 24/7, worldwide?):

Markey, Hirono, Colleagues Reintroduce Legislation to Guarantee Legal Representation for Unaccompanied Children in Immigration Proceedings | U.S. Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts

Washington (April 3, 2025) – Senator Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) today joined Senator Mazie K. Hirono...

www.markey.senate.gov

But what a waste of time for politicians.

I would have handed in my resignation on the spot.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

As we focus on Russia and Iran, China wins. Tip of the iceberg.

US man convicted of running secret Chinese 'police station' in NYC

The secret police station, located above a ramen stall in NYC, is one of at least 100 such facilities that have been reported across 53 countries.

www.bbc.com

 

[sbrothy]

As we focus on Russia and Iran, China wins. Tip of the iceberg.

US man convicted of running secret Chinese 'police station' in NYC

The secret police station, located above a ramen stall in NYC, is one of at least 100 such facilities that have been reported across 53 countries.

www.bbc.com

Talk about "worrying incidents"! That guy made his bed, I have no sympathy with him having to lie in it. It seems to me that China is getting more and more cheeky (and that word isn't strong enough)!

I can't help but wonder though about the things we don't hear about!