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Discuss the Impact of DOGE

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the impact of DOGE, particularly in relation to government spending and efficiency. Participants express concerns about the lack of clear objectives and planning from Elon Musk's DOGE initiative, contrasting it with Elizabeth Warren's structured proposals aimed at reducing waste in government departments. Specific examples of alleged wasteful spending are cited, including a projected $500 billion reduction in IRS income due to DOGE's actions. The conversation highlights the tension between fiscal responsibility and the potential erosion of rights and government accountability.

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  • Understanding of government budgeting processes and fiscal policy.
  • Familiarity with the implications of cryptocurrency on economic systems.
  • Knowledge of organizational change management, particularly in corporate layoffs.
  • Awareness of current political figures and their positions on government efficiency, such as Elizabeth Warren.
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  • Research the implications of cryptocurrency on government spending and efficiency.
  • Explore the role of the Government Accountability Office (GAO) in evaluating federal spending.
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This discussion is beneficial for policymakers, financial analysts, corporate leaders, and anyone interested in the intersection of cryptocurrency, government efficiency, and organizational management.

don't see a connection to DOGE cuts in this sub-topic. If it draws more discussion, I'll move to its own thread.
The connection could that the DOGE cuts are as means to an end, wherever that end will lead.
Musk is probably thinking he is working towards less government, less regulation, and doing what he thinks will lead to a better USA. I think these 'off topic' posts point out that may not be the case.
 
The connection could that the DOGE cuts are as means to an end
I agree.

Musk is probably thinking he is working towards less government, less regulation

Yes, he probably wants as little regulation as he can end up with. Makes me wonder what Musk's opinion on Federal regulation of bathroom assignation would be.
 
Would this this article be about physical genetic defects at birth, or gender dysphoria.
I think that there are aspects of both in the article but it focuses on genetics and physical attributes throughout the article. With respect to dysphoria, the article doesn't generally refer to people who have clearly defined sex but feel like they are the opposite sex. It's more along the lines of having no clearly defined sex (sometimes even beyond puberty) and that person coming to terms with who they are. When I hear of people who say that they are non-binary or refer to themselves as 'they', I think of this article and how some people truly are neither male or female.
 
When I hear of people who say that they are non-binary or refer to themselves as 'they', I think of this article and how some people truly are neither male or female.
That's probably kinda why I was asking and really did not know.
The pigeonholed female, and the pigeonholed male. Such a small % of the population.
A really big topic that I don't want to get into here, nor open up a separate thread.
( But I do hate the pronoun thing as being somewhat superficial. )
 
Can you give specific examples. I have no idea exactly what you are referring to. DOGE is going after billions of dollars wasted by various government departments.
The issue is that the US is supposed to be a constitutional democracy. If DOGE can cut whatever it likes with no recourse to the US Congress or any other regulatory or legal body, then of course that's a quick way to reduce spending. But, where is the line between that and an arbitrary rule of a few wealthly elites? You shouldn't support illegal actions against others while demanding legal protections for yourself. If you're happy that Musk can do whatever he likes to you and your family, and you have no legal rights, then fine. But, if you believe as a US citizen you have rights and protections under the constitution, then you shouldn't deny those rights to others.

There's also a human element. If you did lose your job, it's one thing to be given a polite letter expressing why your job is no longer required. It's quite another to be thrown out the building while the world's richest man mocks you and gloats at your plight. All these people did was to apply for a government job. Just trying to gain employment. Don't treat those people in ways that you would not want yourself to be treated.

These people are not being accused of fraud. They are simply people doing their jobs.

Finally, how can you be certain that Musk is not using his almost unlimited powers to remove inspectors who inhibit his ability to make money illegally? How can you be certain that Musk is not awarding contracts to himself? You condemn ordinary working people while allowing the richest to run roughshod over your people, your government and its legal protections.

Who ensures that Musk doesn't steal everything he can?
 
Let's just stay on the facts regarding DOGE. Instead of creating "what if" straw man scenarios. And what's this about Musk making money illegaly?
 
Who ensures that Musk acts within the law?
No one is ensuring that. There really isn't anywhere else to take your question that I can see.

If you provide references to Musk or DOGE acting outside of US law, that would enable more discussion.
 
If you provide references to Musk or DOGE acting outside of US law, that would enable more discussion.
USAID, for example, was set up by an act of congress and legally it should take an act of congress to shut it down. The same applies to a lot of what DOGE is doing. Legally, there should have been a bill through congress before the widespread and sweeping reform of US government.

You are all supposed to believe in the constitution and in the separation of powers. That congress and the judiciary have a role in US Government.
 
You are all supposed to believe in the constitution and in the separation of powers.
Asking for a reference does not tell anyone anything about my beliefs in what makes a good government or imply skepticism about what you are saying.

We want evidence based debate on this forum, that is all the motivation there is behind asking for references.
 
Asking for a reference does not tell anyone anything about my beliefs in what makes a good government or imply skepticism about what you are saying.

We want evidence based debate on this forum, that is all the motivation there is behind asking for references.
I must confess, as an aside, I can't see the point of evidence-based debate at this stage. The only thing you should be doing is fighting with everything you've got - short of violence. The only hope you have is that your government is taking on not only opposition at home, but almost every other country. Apart from Russia - not a bad word is to be said about Russia. At some point, you have to realise what's happening and oppose it.

You might say: give me evidence that the US is hostile to my country. I don't need proof. All I need is enough evidence (which I have) that we are at risk from you. You are certainly no longer an ally. Whether you are actually an enemy is another question. I don't know. It depends how far your government wants to go.

As I see it, you have a non-violent Civil War in the US at the moment. Maybe the judiciary can stop Trump. Who knows?

But, pretending you don't see what's happening and asking for evidence that Musk is breaking the law? That's hopeless. You should have seen enough by now to know you have to fight them. What are you going to do with this evidence?
 
The only thing you should be doing is fighting with everything you've got
Reasoned discussion with people who disagree with me is one of the things I like to think I've got. Such discussion is greatly aided by references, and in any case, if you read the community values you will see where I got "evidence based debate". Please send me a pm if you want to discuss the community values further.
 
Reasoned discussion with people who disagree with me is one of the things I like to think I've got.
IMO, it's too late for that.
Such discussion is greatly aided by references, and in any case, if you read the community values you will see where I got "evidence based debate".
I promise not to post any more. I just stopped by to see what was happening. I'm not interested in debate. I'm only interested in what action Trump's opponents are taking. This is a fight to the political death now.
Please send me a pm if you want to discuss the community values further.
Feel free to delete my account.
 
Who ensures that Musk acts within the law?
Maybe you need to do some searching. The state and federal judicial systems have oversight over Musk / DOGE. But with the number of progressive/activist judges, many appointed by Obama, you can be sure "High Noon" is coming
 
But with the number of progressive/activist judges, many appointed by Obama
I found the below article with a list of judges so far who have ruled against Trump since his return to office. The article also lists the cases they ruled on. Do you any reason to conclude these are progressive/activist judges other than having heard it as a talking point in the media? I know activist judges exist, I live in a county that has a very activist judge and in general judicial activism makes me uncomfortable. IMO Clarence Thomas is an overtly activist judge - as I'm sure you know, activism can be conservative or populist as well as progressive. When I have more time, I'll look for any research that scores judges on the leaning of their rulings or on general activism.

It seems less likely to me that Trump got unlucky and drew a batch of activist judges, and more likely that what he is doing is absolutely legally unprecedented and in many cases illegal, and that explains the rulings better than claiming he is the victim of activist judges.


Loren AliKhan Biden
Deborah Boardman Biden
John Coughenour Reagan
Paul Engelmayer Obama
Amy Berman Jackson Obama
Angel Kelley Biden
Royce Lamberth Reagan
Joseph Laplante Bush
John McConnell Obama
Carl Nichols Trump
George O'Toole Jr. Clinton
 
I'm not inclined to go through all these judges/cases. But with the screen shot from the link regarding ending birth right citizenship from parents here illegally: That tells me all I need to know about these judges who are promoting this radicle "birth right"... Their agenda is to flood the country with democratic voters. Then these so called anchor babies enables the parents to get US citizenship. So in essence these judges are breaching the integrity of the U S. Sounds close to treason to me.IMG_20250327_191815.webp
 
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I'm not inclined to go through all these judges/cases. But with the screen shot from the link regarding ending birth right citizenship from parents here illegally ...
That's not the point. The current birthright rules are based on the constitution. Regardless of whether it's a good idea, Trump cannot change the constitution by executive order.

He's tried to argue that the relevant part of the constitution can be interpreted in a new way which allows that change, but that seems very tenuous, so it is not at all clear whether this attempt is legal and it is quite reasonable for judges to tell him he can't just go ahead with it without further legal investigation.
 
It's based on an interpretation of the constitution.

It's all just dead paper. Nothing means anything. A law, or a constitution, only ever means what people let it mean.
 
This is the text in question from the 14th Amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.​

Trump's position is that if the parent is an undocumented immigrant, the child is not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". This is clearly not the intention of the original text, and Trump's attempt to implement this change has been called "blatantly unconstitutional" by a federal judge. Standard examples of exceptions to the birthright rule include for example children born to invading forces in wartime, and Trump and his supporters have been likening the situation to that case.

(Also, it seems that if the child is not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" that surely opens a further can of worms!)

As a starting point for references, see Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States
 
I'm not inclined to go through all these judges/cases.
Taht's a shame, truly.

Stop making broad claims regarding all the judges who rule against Trump being <whatever> until / unless you are willing to provide specifics on those judges to support you claims.

tells me all I need to know
It really doesn't. Claiming that your screenshot passes for diligence is nonsense.

Sounds close to treason to me.
Unfortunately, you are not alone in being willing to conclude something in an area where you clearly have zero expertise and are unwilling to do any diligence. @Jonathan Scott doesn't live in the US, has much less at stake than you do in how the US government ends up looking four years hence, and he took the 10 minutes or so needed to get basic background on the situation before posting. It isn't that hard or time consuming.

Their agenda is to flood the country with democratic voters.
There are so many unsupported implications in that statement I don't know which is the most aggriegous. In the future, when making broad ill-defined claims qualify them with IMO or somesuch, or include references for discussion; or at least say where you heard it if there is no reference becuase its a soundbite from whatever media you are consuming.
 
Trump also is ordering proof of US citizenship in order to register to vote. And why o why would this order be opposed ? One UCLA law professor called this a " dangerous" executive order and could " potentially disenfranchise millions of voters ". So the opposition is advocating voting rights for non citizens??? I rest my case. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...calling-proof-us-citizenship-vote-2025-03-26/
If you were born "Mary Jones" and are now "Mary Smith," you cannot prove you are who you say you are unless you have a passport. Only 48% of Americans have valid passports.
 
That's a strawman argument: birth certificate is proof. And regarding the last paragraph in post # 50.
not according to SAVE Act (H.R. 22).
from https://responsivegov.org/research/...tizenship-requirement-would-impact-elections/
  • Married Women. Around 80% of American women change their name upon marriage. As a result, roughly 33% of all married women lack documents that meet citizenship requirements and reflect their current legal name.5,6 Married women make up over a quarter of the electorate, so impeding them from registering to vote has a potentially significant impact on election outcomes.
 
A Center for Immigration Studies report released today quantifies why Democrats support, or are indifferent to, open borders.

Center for Immigration Studies:
The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an American anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers and produces analyses to further those views.
Additionally.
Reports published by CIS have been disputed by scholars on immigration, fact-checkers and news outlets, and immigration-research organizations. The organization had significant influence within the Trump administration, which cited the group's work to defend its immigration policies. The Southern Poverty Law Center designated CIS as a hate group with ties to the American nativist movement.
 

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