What's new
New posts

ICE sends man to San Salvador by mistake

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia by ICE to El Salvador due to an administrative error, as reported by multiple news outlets including NBC News and CNN. Participants express outrage over the Trump administration's handling of the situation, highlighting the perceived disregard for Garcia's protected legal status. The Supreme Court's involvement, allowing the enforcement of the Alien Enemies Act for rapid deportations, further complicates the issue, raising concerns about the implications for due process and human rights in the U.S.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of U.S. immigration law and the Alien Enemies Act
  • Familiarity with the role of the Supreme Court in immigration cases
  • Knowledge of ICE's operational procedures and policies
  • Awareness of the political context surrounding the Trump administration's immigration policies
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of the Alien Enemies Act on current immigration practices
  • Examine case studies of wrongful deportations and their legal ramifications
  • Investigate the Supreme Court's recent rulings on immigration and their impact on policy
  • Explore reform proposals for U.S. immigration enforcement agencies like ICE
USEFUL FOR

Immigration lawyers, human rights advocates, political analysts, and anyone interested in the complexities of U.S. immigration policy and its legal challenges.

Greg Bernhardt said:
Maybe this has been mentioned in another thread, but this is absolute Stalinist horror. The Trump admin says they can't get him back. WTF!?
www.nbcnews.com

A man was sent to El Salvador due to 'administrative error' despite protected legal status, filings show

Kilmar Abrego Garcia "was removed to El Salvador because of an administrative error," a Monday court filing said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
Click to expand...
Would perfectly fit in here:
fresh_42

Civil Rights Thread 'Collection of worrying incidents'

I was looking for a thread where I could post stories that are in my mind highly alarming, condemnable, or generally a sign that the USA is currently on a dangerous path toward a country that contradicts its own (former) values.

Since I didn't want to hijack other existing threads, I will start a new one.
  • Like
 
Administrative error, my ass. ICE knew of his protected status and decided to ignore the law as is usual with this administration.
 
placebo said:
Administrative error, my ass. ICE knew of his protected status and decided to ignore the law as is usual with this administration.
Click to expand...
I would have never thought of writing that it is currently safer to visit North Korea than it is to travel to the USA. In North Korea, you have the chance to obey the rules, whereas encountering an ICE officer is unpredictable, and risky and you have no chance to take legal measures. Even Ceausescu's Romania was less dangerous!
 
It's sad that I feel so much anxiety about how the Supreme Court might rule. This should be a no-brainer, but with these justices, you never know.
 
placebo said:
It's sad that I feel so much anxiety about how the Supreme Court might rule. This should be a no-brainer, but with these justices, you never know.
Click to expand...
That is another point I do not understand about the way the USA set up its "democracy". The US-American Supreme Court is heavily influenced by ruling majorities, i.e. the GOP considering the years since Obama.

Our judges have terms limited to 12 years, an upper bound of 68 years of age, and are chosen by our president, who is traditionally independent of reigning parties.

The Federal Assembly is a non-permanent constitutional body of the Federal Republic of Germany whose sole function is to elect the Federal President. It is composed of all members of the German parliament and an equal number of electors elected by the parliaments of the German states.

The Federal President is elected by the Federal Assembly without debate and by secret ballot; its procedures are intended to underline the special dignity of the office. This excludes a personnel debate, as well as the mere presentation of candidates; however, a debate on the Rules of Procedure is permissible. In the election, a candidate must obtain an absolute majority of the members. Only if no candidate succeeds in this in two rounds of voting will a relative majority suffice in a third.
Click to expand...

This is way more a procedure that attempts to represent the whole citizenship than what is going on in the USA. It is one point I thought of when a friend of mine stated that the USA has never been a democracy.
 
Last edited:
The original intent of lifetime appointments was to free judges from political pressure, and back when the Constitution was written, people didn't live so long. Some have suggested reforms, like having a set term for justices, choosing a new justice every four years so we're not morbidly hoping for justices to die, etc.
 
placebo said:
Some have suggested reforms ...
Click to expand...

This is another problem. A strictly bipartisan political landscape makes reforms close to impossible, or at least dangerous. The rest of my friend's statement was that US-Americans have an almost religious view of their Constitution that prohibits any improvement and that the Constitution, written centuries ago, is neither a democratic one nor appropriate in today's world. The perspective from outside of the USA is a very different one.
 
And now we have the consequences of this biased SCOTUS:

Supreme Court allows Trump to enforce Alien Enemies Act for rapid deportations for now​


The Supreme Court on Monday allowed President Donald Trump to enforce the Alien Enemies Act for now, handing the White House a significant victory that will let immigration officials rely on a sweeping wartime authority to rapidly deport alleged gang members.

The unsigned decision in the case, the most closely watched emergency appeal pending at the Supreme Court, lets Trump invoke the 1798 law to speed removals while litigation over the act’s use plays out in lower courts. The court stressed that people deported going forward should receive notice they are subject to the act and an opportunity to have their removal reviewed.
Click to expand...
 
From what I've read, they ignored the man's plight and basically said that the case was brought in the wrong district court. A typical one of his stalling tactics that this court is only too happy to oblige over and over again.
 
fresh_42 said:
This is another problem. A strictly bipartisan political landscape makes reforms close to impossible, or at least dangerous. The rest of my friend's statement was that US-Americans have an almost religious view of their Constitution that prohibits any improvement and that the Constitution, written centuries ago, is neither a democratic one nor appropriate in today's world. The perspective from outside of the USA is a very different one.
Click to expand...
there have been amendments throughout the years, proof that it not impossible. That's why they are called Amendments to the Constitution.

I believe Congress ratifies an amendment, perhaps by a super majority, Senate approves, and the individual states( could be a number there too ) have to agree to make it the law of the land.

I looked up Wiki to be sure.
en.wikipedia.org

List of amendments to the Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Like I said before, one just has to love this girl. She can spute out 4 points why this man in question is heinous and deserved to be deported, rattling the points off without missing a beat for the ICE actions.
I am sure she sleeps well at night feeling much safer, from this man targeted by a tatoo.

Still waiting for the evidence that ICE and Homeland Security has on him as she emphasized.
Evidence might not show if there is another clerical error. What are the chances.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/watch...on-wrongly-deported-dad-kilmar-abrego-garcia/
 
Unfortunately, they didn't specify when.

This administration clearly isn't going to abide by any decisions it doesn't like. And besides, he knows that SCOTUS doesn't have an enforcement arm so he'll just play the games of "la la la, I don't hear you" and "make me" - stall, delay, tweet, whine (on Fox), ignore... If Garcia is returned even by the end of the year, I'll be surprised.
 
Trump administration says they do not know how to get him out. They sent Kristi Noem to San Salvador for a photo op, no problem. They claim they can take the Panama Canal and Greenland, no problem. I say get Garrcia out, no problem.
 
Trump bro bonds with San Salvador's president Bukele at the White House to seal the fate of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e...n&cvid=7b324127df1a499ce40a2850348834c5&ei=18
In an Oval Office meeting, Trump praised Bukele for opening his country's prison system to house alleged gang members and detainees Trump wants to deport, and said he would send as many people living in the U.S. illegally to El Salvador as possible.

The U.S. would help El Salvador build new prisons, Trump added.

The Trump administration has deported hundreds of people, mostly Venezuelans, to El Salvador under the 1798 Alien Enemies Act, including a Maryland resident it has acknowledged deporting by mistake.

Bukele said he did not have the power to return Salvadoran Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the United States.
"The question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?" Bukele said, echoing the Trump administration's claim that Abrego Garcia is a member of the MS-13 gang. . . .
Click to expand...

Bukele told Trump he is accused of imprisoning "thousands" of people. "I like to say that we actually liberated millions," he said.
The U.S. president reacted gleefully to Bukele's comment. "Do you think I can use that?" Trump asked, and criticized his Democratic opponents over their handling of the U.S. border.

"It's a sin what they did, and you are helping us out. We appreciate it," Trump said.
Click to expand...
 
I'm really out of words after watching bits of that meeting. It's laughably absurd that the leaders of two countries, involved in the man's kidnapping and imprisonment, claim they can't bring a U.S. citizen back. What is this clown horror show?
 
But it was specified during the talk with the El Salvadore president that it was one line mistake made by a lawyer who has since been fired.
 
And I don't know what I find more deplorable: the unbelievable personal tragedies that this horror regime has in store for ordinary people, or the audacity with which existing legal rules are ignored. I think what I despise most is that these figures are not being vigorously removed from office! America is watching the end of its values, and its political system, even if it is far from being a democracy, but at least they have tried, and the end to anything labeled as human rights - and the country seems to be ok with that. It makes me shiver.
 
So, assuming that the whole system doesn't end this round, and somehow a free election occurs in the US again someday.

How does the next government deal with institutions designed around cruelty that employ thousands of insane assholes?

How does the US plan to de-Nazify?

www.newsweek.com

ICE agents realize they arrested wrong teen, say 'take him anyway'

Merwil Gutiérrez, was deported to El Salvador's notorious super prison, despite his family's insistence that he has no gang ties or criminal history.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
What the Merwil Gutierrez case illustrates is that ICE grabbing a teenager off the street and deporting him to almost-certain death in El Salvador is not a “mistake.” It is part of a deliberate strategy of terror, dehumanization, and extrajudicial punishment aimed at political enemies, racial undesirables, and ideological threats.

You can’t reform a fascist bureaucracy staffed by sadists. Thousands of ICE employees are ideologically committed to authoritarianism, white nationalism, or gleeful cruelty. These are people who proudly destroy lives and call it patriotism. You can’t retrain them. You have to remove them—decisively and permanently. No elected government, under current conditions, will do this. Civil service protections, police unions, and entrenched networks of mutual impunity will shield them.

Post-WWII de-Nazification in Germany was only possible because the Nazi regime was utterly destroyed in a global war. There is no external force with the will or capacity to impose a moral reckoning. Internally, the bureaucratic, judicial, and enforcement classes have been captured or cowed. There is no meaningful "resistance" within the state powerful enough to dismantle ICE or its analogs.

There is no return to a mythical “normal.” The time for legalistic optimism is over. What you are witnessing is the real-time institutionalization of purge.
 
Last edited:
Greg Bernhardt said:
I'm really out of words after watching bits of that meeting. It's laughably absurd that the leaders of two countries, involved in the man's kidnapping and imprisonment, claim they can't bring a U.S. citizen back. What is this clown horror show?
Click to expand...
It's these two leaders giving us the middle finger and laughing at us.

fresh_42 said:
I think what I despise most is that these figures are not being vigorously removed from office! America is watching the end of its values, and its political system, even if it is far from being a democracy, but at least they have tried, and the end to anything labeled as human rights - and the country seems to be ok with that. It makes me shiver.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of people who are not okay with what's happening. There are a lot of uninformed people who would not be okay with what's happening if they bothered to follow the news. Unfortunately, there are probably a lot of people who are okay with what's happening because they just don't recognize the seriousness of the situation.

What's unfortunate is that those in a position to hold these lawless figures responsible have been unwilling to do so for years now. The Senate had two chances to convict Trump and disqualify him from running again. The Senate could have taken its job seriously and refused to approve the likes of Hegseth, RFK Jr.,Pam Bondi, and others who we all knew were chosen not for their qualifications but for their fealty to Trump. AG Merrick Garland could have immediately began the investigation into Trump instead of finally being spurred into action when it was embarrassed by the findings of Jan. 6th committee. Members in Congress, like Mike Johnson and Jim Jordan, who clearly were accomplices in trying to overturn the 2020 election should have been investigated but never were. Justices Thomas and Alito were never investigated despite ample signs of likely corruption. The Senate never exercised oversight over the Supreme Court when these allegations arose. The Supreme Court could have followed the law instead of making up legally questionable rulings like granting presidential immunity. The list goes on and on. The system failed us repeatedly at every level. It should be no surprise that no one in leadership is doing anything now.

I think the fairly tepid response so far from the people is a reflection of a sense of hopelessness after years of the system and our fellow citizens letting us down.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
I fear the man is actually dead
Click to expand...
Good news concerning Kilmar Garcia-Abrego. This WaPo article shows his home senator meeting him in El Salvador this evening.


El Salvador’s government initially rebuffed Van Hollen’s request to meet with Abrego García when he arrived in the country Wednesday and prevented him on Thursday from approaching the Terrorism Confinement Center, the notorious prison where he believed Abrego García was being held.

But Van Hollen sat down with Abrego García Thursday evening, the senator wrote on X.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Klystron said:
It also includes derogatory information on Abrego Garcia while denying gang affiliations.
Click to expand...
This information is a red herring in any case. The main issue is that he was denied due process, where this information could be assessed for its relevance and credibility, before being sent to a gulag in a foreign country.
 

Liberal Democracy Values

  • Free and Fair Elections
  • Rule of Law
  • Separation of Powers & Checks and Balances
  • Protection of Civil Liberties and Human Rights
  • Pluralism & Political Competition
  • Independent Media & Free Press
  • Open Civil Society

Community Values

  • Civility
  • Productivity
  • Good Faith Debate
  • Evidence Based Debate
  • Transparency
  • Integrity

Community Motto

"It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the truth and expose lies." - Noam Chomsky
Back
Top