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Taking back power from tech oligarchs

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the need to reclaim power from tech oligarchs such as Zuckerberg, Bezos, and Musk through personal boycotts of their platforms and products. Participants emphasize that individual actions, like deleting accounts from Facebook and Amazon, can contribute to a larger movement against these entities. Additionally, the conversation touches on the upcoming special elections in Florida, which could shift the balance of power in Congress. The discussion highlights the importance of both individual boycotts and collective action to challenge the influence of billionaires in society.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of social media dynamics and their impact on society
  • Knowledge of current political events, particularly U.S. elections
  • Familiarity with the concept of principled consumption and boycotts
  • Awareness of the influence of billionaires on politics and public policy
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the impact of social media boycotts on corporate behavior
  • Explore the role of grassroots movements in political change, using examples like Vida Além do Trabalho
  • Investigate the implications of the upcoming Florida special elections on national politics
  • Learn about the mechanisms of popular pressure and how they can influence legislative outcomes
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for activists, political enthusiasts, and consumers interested in understanding the dynamics of power held by tech oligarchs and the potential for collective action to effect change.

Boycott social media
You know, forums like this very one are also social media :eek:

Joke (?) aside, regarding the development of social media I see plenty of similarities with the history of the monetary/investment services. It always took time for regulations to catch up, and there were always new (old) ideas to circumvent them - but money tucked in the mattresses was rarely the thing what could give an edge to the individual.

Regulating this mess we have now will be difficult, but I think that by now the consequences are proven to run deep enough to invalidate excuses like 'it's too much, we can't possibly enforce regulations' or 'it's all about free speech' or all that usual stuff.

So instead of a voluntary walking away, I would rather think about a rally for a re-think and regulation.
Yep, a rally involving even those exact social media platforms too.
 
You know, forums like this very one are also social media :eek:
haha true true, I mean of course bad faith oligarch controlled
Yep, a rally involving even those exact social media platforms too.
True, one can push a movement on the very same platforms, but still they make money off your engagement. That feels like complicity to me and something I can't handle when people are dying.
 
forums like this very one are also social media

I was thinking along these lines as well. There is some irony in this discussion. Like you, I am not saying that invalidates the discussion. For me, the below really captures the irony -

In the case of big techs, for many people, boycotting becomes impossible

For us, having this conversation becomes impossible if we proceed deeply enough into a big tech boycott.

For myself, I stopped using FB much at all about 3 years ago, it lost most of its utility for me. I haven't boycotted, since I didn't decrease my usage in order to make any political point, and I haven't closed my account, but it just doesn't bring any value to me so I hardly look at it.

I tried creating a Twitter account a couple years ago in order to follow a specific journalist I like, but even though I am reasonably tech savvy I couldn't figure out a way to only get tweets from that journalist. Every morning I got a new spew of verbal-vomit tweets from people with handles that hurt my head to look at, so I pretty quickly gave that up completely. Still, not a boycott, though. Probably it should have been, and if I still had an X account today I'd delete it and it would be a boycott.

That feels like complicity to me and something I can't handle when people are dying.

To me, this is the most valid reason to decide what to do with one's discretionary time and income - if a company is doing things you consider unconscionable, don't support that company, full stop - even if there is no larger point to it than following you own moral compass. There needn't be a larger point.
 
I tried creating a Twitter account a couple years ago in order to follow a specific journalist I like, but even though I am reasonably tech savvy I couldn't figure out a way to only get tweets from that journalist. Every morning I got a new spew of verbal-vomit tweets from people with handles that hurt my head to look at, so I pretty quickly gave that up completely.
Yeah X is really bad with that due to Elon's messing with the algos. It doesn't matter who you follow anymore. They show a mix of what you wanted and what they want.
 
Personally I don't understand how there isn't yet a general strike on the entire public sector hasn't been declared.

I Googled the below, the numbers are from the AI summary I got back.

There are 20.6 million public sector workers employed by state and local governments. In the US, local governments have essentially complete autonomy to raise their own taxes and to spend those taxes as they see fit. They are all separate entities.

There are 3 million public sector workers employed by the Federal government.

The 'entire public sector' in the US (those 23M people) is not at all monolithic and the large majority of them (the 20M state and local folks) are not directly impacted by what is happening at the Federal level (except like we are impacted, due to loss of services).

Again, Googled and the AI summary - about half of Federal workers are able to be represented by a Union, and membership is voluntary.

My opinion - what unions exist do not, in my lifetime at least, have a developed culture of calling strikes and in any case are not scoped to organize a full public sector strike.

Outside of a union, its too many people with too few perceived common interests with each other to expect such a thing to happen organically, imo.
 
Right, but that was a really "easy" thing, not a real, long term, high stakes strategy of Budweiser.

I'm not sure what you are saying here - can you please expand?

To me, the Bud Light example shows how well aligned the conservative grass roots in the US are and how much impact a well aligned constituency can have.

It occurs to me that its funny how poorly aligned the conservatives at the congressional level in contrast. The Dems seem to be the opposite, not very co-ordinated at the grass roots level, relatively much more co-ordinated at the congressional level.
 
I'm not sure what you are saying here - can you please expand?

To me, the Bud Light example shows how well aligned the conservative grass roots in the US are and how much impact a well aligned constituency can have.

It occurs to me that its funny how poorly aligned the conservatives at the congressional level in contrast. The Dems seem to be the opposite, not very co-ordinated at the grass roots level, relatively much more co-ordinated at the congressional level.
The Bud Light example was Budweiser trying out a marketing strategy, and failing. So they changed the strategy. It's not like what is happening now, which is a number of billionaires seemingly dead set on ushering in a new "social contract". That's something a lot harder to change by boycotting, especially since a lot of their products are almost unavoidable.
 
Got it - thanks for that, a fair enough assessment I agree.



Interesting - that being?
I guess it's not really new, just a radical ramp up of the norm. The way I see it, the idea is to finally undo all progress that has been achieved in terms of democratically controlled, public benefit institutions, regulations, and protections of workers and marginalized groups, so that all power is transferred solely into the top of the corporate food chain. When they talk about "big government" etc, what they really mean is anything that restricts, partially redistributes, or lies outside their power. The goal is apparently some kind of modernized feudalism.

Of course none of that is new, any ruling class has wished for more or less the same things, at least in spirit. But there are some things that seem to have changed. One, they seem to be very bold about it now, probably because they feel like they can force a transition to a new framework at this time, and it's interesting to figure out why. Two, in the US in particular, it seemed like there was a small but existing division between the traditional and domestic industry, and the high tech multinationals and finance capital. The first were the ones whose interests are better represented by the Republicans, and the second closer to the democrats. What seems to be happening is that big parts of the second category are apparently now convinced that the first side has a plan that is in their interests. The why probably has to do with the answer to the first question. Three, they've figured out how to manipulate large parts of the populace into supporting them. It's an old trick, the classes they mostly target are the same classes that were manipulated into bringing fascism into prominence, but modernized.

There's lots of things I haven't fully understood, and certainly at least part of it is a reaction to the US losing its global power in favor of China etc. But what seems certain to me is that there is a strong push for a radical change, that will remove present restrictions to the power of capitalist oligarchs.
 
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The tech oligarchs like Zuckerberg, Bezos, Elon and crypto bros only have power because we give it to them. I have begun a personal boycott and removal. Remove your accounts from Facebook, Instagram. Stop buying from Amazon and Tesla. Stop buying crypo currencies. We are funding these malevolent forces, but we have take back control and power. Boycott social media and the tech bros!
I liken them to the Robber Barons of our depression years.
 
I liken them to the Robber Barons of our depression years.
Feel free to expand on this important historical theme in other relevant threads over time.

If memory serves the original robber barons profitted from public works and funds such as canals and dredged waterways and city walls first by demanding tribute then actually robbing common users, saving the difficult process of implementing tarrifs and taxes.

Twenty-first Century barons misappropriate public funds to build gigantic stadiums and golf courses of miniscule value to common folk but enormous prestige builders for oligarchs.

Deliberate induced economic depressions also due to malfeasance and incompetence provide roadmarks of reactionary strangulation whenever 'little people' gain a modicum of economic freedom. US history can be written as 'boom and bust' cycles of unchecked greed masquerading as capitalism.
 
I liken them to the Robber Barons of our depression years.
The robber barons were pretty much history by the very early 1900's, WAY before the Great Depression of the 1930's.

I agree that the modern tech moguls are pretty much the equivalent, but let's keep our history straight.
 
This may not be easy for those of you in the US to accept. But if you are serious about stopping the fascist coup the only way you can realy hurt Trump and his fascist government is financially. I have sold all my shares in US stocks and transferred my investments to Europe. You should all do the same. It must be done quickly, before Trump has been able to seize all branches of government and is immune to pressure.

If the US stocks crash, then there is at least some hope that the Republicans will turn on their demi-god.

You may baulk at hurting your own country. But, your country is now allied with Russia against the free democracies of the world. How long before you are arming Russia or even providing troops to support their conquest of Eastern Europe?

All our futures hinge on defeating Trump in the next few months. Your only remaining allies are Russia, Argentina, Israel Hungary and N Korea. Think about that.

Sell your US stocks and invest in the free democracies of Europe!! Just do it!
 
Certainly Musk is pushing the idea that Ukraine is the enemy and US Foreign Policy is hardly distinguishable from Kremlin propaganda.
 
Uli Hoeneß was CEO of FC Bayern Munich (i.e. he was factually the one who developed the brand) and founded a large food company, which is now run by his children. Here is what he had to say on German TV:

Billionaire is unpredictable
"Good night America": Hoeneß leaves no doubt about his thoughts on Musk

Hoeneß said: "„Der hat nicht alle Tassen im Schrank“ [roughly: he is nuts, but less polite] ... I'm very afraid. If a man like that is supposed to decide the fate of coworkers, employees, of the unemployed, then I have to say, good night America."

Hoeneß: Germany must "take care of itself."
The situation is a difficult one for the future German government. Hoeneß continued that the assumption that the US "is always our friend has proven to be a mistake". Therefore, we must "take care of ourselves." A functioning economy is essential for this.

 
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The tech oligarchs like Zuckerberg, Bezos, Elon and crypto bros only have power because we give it to them. I have begun a personal boycott and removal. Remove your accounts from Facebook, Instagram. Stop buying from Amazon and Tesla. Stop buying crypo currencies. We are funding these malevolent forces, but we have take back control and power. Boycott social media and the tech bros!
This has given me nightmares. I didn't realize until recently that it's virtually untraceable. Laundering cash for favors is 100% plausible. How much is Russia paying to keep trump placated? And hundreds of other possibilities?
 
I know I posted this on PF (although political in nature it must have fitted into the discussion or slipped under the radar) but I think it belongs here too:

There's a French economist who (among other things) argues that most, if not all, the world wars has been a result of capital accumulating on too few hands, and here we are again. I saw mentioned the other day that Elon Musk is close to becoming the first trillionaire. And what's not to like about that man?

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/795282.Thomas_Piketty

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18736925-capital-in-the-twenty-first-century
 
I like the perspective of Yanis Varoufakis in his book, Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism.

It describes how what we are seeing with the tech industry has a similar essential character to prior developments that allowed for the control and subdivision of any great public commons, where digital platforms extract value not through profit from competitive markets but through rent extraction enabled by platform ownership. Traditional capitalism relied on profits generated through commodity production and market competition. Big tech platforms instead extract rents by owning the digital infrastructure where economic activity occurs. They charge for access to their "cloud fiefs" rather than competing in traditional markets.

It closely ties into Cory Doctorow's "enshittification", described in a great video presentation here. He has since written a book on the subject and the term has been introduced into many dictionaries shortly after it was coined.

Generally, the idea that wealth accumulation leads to upheaval is flipped on its head to examine whether upheaval can cause wealth equality in Walter Scheidel's book, The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century. Rather than saying that inequality causes instability such as world wars, Scheidel says that a war might be one of the only ways to even temporarily regain some measure of equality. He examines economic equality across a very broad geographic and temporal landscape, finding that the default mode of essentially any post-agrarian civilization is for inequality to constantly increase in times of peace. In his analysis, economic equality can only be temporarily imrpoved at times of what he calls the "four horsemen": mass-mobilization warfare, transformative revolutions, state collapse, and catastrophic plagues that kill a sufficient amount of the overall population that the current economic system becomes impossible.
 
I like the perspective of Yanis Varoufakis in his book, Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism.

It describes how what we are seeing with the tech industry has a similar essential character to prior developments that allowed for the control and subdivision of any great public commons, where digital platforms extract value not through profit from competitive markets but through rent extraction enabled by platform ownership. Traditional capitalism relied on profits generated through commodity production and market competition. Big tech platforms instead extract rents by owning the digital infrastructure where economic activity occurs. They charge for access to their "cloud fiefs" rather than competing in traditional markets.

It closely ties into Cory Doctorow's "enshittification", described in a great video presentation here. He has since written a book on the subject and the term has been introduced into many dictionaries shortly after it was coined.

Generally, the idea that wealth accumulation leads to upheaval is flipped on its head to examine whether upheaval can cause wealth equality in Walter Scheidel's book, The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century. Rather than saying that inequality causes instability such as world wars, Scheidel says that a war might be one of the only ways to even temporarily regain some measure of equality. He examines economic equality across a very broad geographic and temporal landscape, finding that the default mode of essentially any post-agrarian civilization is for inequality to constantly increase in times of peace. In his analysis, economic equality can only be temporarily imrpoved at times of what he calls the "four horsemen": mass-mobilization warfare, transformative revolutions, state collapse, and catastrophic plagues that kill a sufficient amount of the overall population that the current economic system becomes impossible.

Unfortunately the argument rings true. The downside is that a person with that much money has so much influence. At least Bill Gates did some good with his wealth (insuring himself somewhat from not getting hanged instantly in the case of a government breakdown, Musk on the other hand.....).

EDIT: Well, thinking about it I think his approach is amassing his own personal army or installing himself as the top autocrat.
 
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I think the question of "evilness" is irrelevant. I don't know and it doesn't really matter much if x is a "good guy" or not. It's about what it means for a society to let some people have that amount of resources and power in the first place. Even their charity will inevitably be undemocratic to some extent. That said, while I have no idea what Warren Buffett does, I know that Bill Gates has done and is doing plenty of things that are at the very least controversial.

I suspect that very few people consider themselves "evil". In other people's optics it may look that way but is there such a thing as objective wickedness? It has got to be very abstract.
 
We need a generational resistance to big tech. Delete your facebook, instagram, X profiles. I deleted my FB account last year. It was hard at first and now I don't think twice about it .Shop local, not Amazon. Support local journalism.
 
We need a generational resistance to big tech. Delete your facebook, instagram, X profiles. I deleted my FB account last year. It was hard at first and now I don't think twice about it .Shop local, not Amazon. Support local journalism.
Jeez. I have already been doing all those things since day 1.

Some reports I hear reports also that where the schools have adopted Cell Phone Free, students are liking it better - not having to check all the time to see if they missed anything ( anything not important that is ).
The actual impact, rather than the selling of the idea by positive reports, should come out in due time.
 
Perhaps. The mind has powerful defense mechanisms along with people's inherent neurosis.

Yes, after-rationalization can become pretty complex. Which is, in a way, what I meant. People find excuses for their acts to make them look non-evil.

Of course there's always the sexual deviants who are (probablly) painfully aware that what they're doing is downright evil. I hope most of those seek medical help before enacting their heinous fantasies. It's so hard to identify with it gives me the creeps and so far from ones reality it's impossible to empathize with.
 
Having met my share of actual "tech oligarchs" including a few who began their fortunes selling online sex (pimps), stealing and selling online access (thieves), or developing often hideous war technology (murderers), do not expect moral arguments to prevail.

By definition sociopaths lack capacity to reason from common consensus morality or otherwise be deterred by civic responsibilty.
 
We need a generational resistance to big tech. Delete your facebook, instagram, X profiles. I deleted my FB account last year. It was hard at first and now I don't think twice about it .Shop local, not Amazon. Support local journalism.
As long as Tim Russ remains alive, I will not be deleting my X account.

Screenshot 2025-12-31 at 21.27.08.webp

I did though unfollow the 3.5 bazillion other people I was following, and left just Tim and Bluesky.

I thought the Bluesky follow was kind of a knife in the kidney type shot.
A reminder to musk that no matter how much money he has, there is always an alternative to kissing his butt.

ps. It's been at least 2 years since I've ordered anything via Amazon.
pps. As long as it's free, I'll never delete my FB account, as all my old friends can't comprehend anything else, and I'd hate to lose them. I've been pleading with them for years to not feed the oligarchs, but I don't think people, in general, are capable of thinking outside of their bubbles.
 

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